14 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by sugiezdI would argue that all suffering is a result of sin in the world. Yet you say there are those who do not deserve to suffer like the children, for example. According to the Bible was Christ innocent? Yes he was yet he was described as a man of many sorrows and aquainted with grief and was utlimatly tortured and killed. Biblically how does one come to terms with this as well? It is apparent that once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty. Sin is a destructive force that does not descriminate between innocent and guilty. It is like being in the middle of a hurricane which will eventually take your life as well.
So, you're a believer who simply accepts that such things are god's way?
14 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodey"once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty"
I would argue that all suffering is a result of sin in the world. Yet you say there are those who do not deserve to suffer like the children, for example. According to the Bible was Christ innocent? Yes he was yet he was described as a man of many sorrows and aquainted with grief and was utlimatly tortured and killed. Biblically how does one come to terms ...[text shortened]... ty. It is like being in the middle of a hurricane which will eventually take your life as well.
Didn't god create sin?
An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.
Please don't launch into some son of man diatribe, I think I'd be sick.
14 Nov 06
Originally posted by sugiezdDidn't god create sin?
"once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty"
Didn't god create sin?
An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.
Please don't launch into some son of man diatribe, I think I'd be sick.
No.
An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.
You've missed the point. First, no one is born innocent, per se; we are all born with the sin nature, passed on by Adam. While the soul is created perfect, it inhabits a sin-cursed body. No one dies because of their personal sins: all personal sin was part of the contingent plan of God from eternity past. Whether anyone asked Him to or not, God had already formulated a plan to pay for all sin via the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
Since all sin has been paid for by His work, the only folks who enter into hell are those who refuse to accept His work as their own. The child who dies prior to realizing an ability to formulate such a decision is automatically transferred to Heaven.
Please don't launch into some son of man diatribe, I think I'd be sick.
Ostensibly, the nausea would be induced as a result of considering a concept which stands in complete contradiction to the concepts you hold as true. That is a uniquely strong perception you hold, as I know of many people who can at least consider conflicting strings of thought without losing their lunches. You may want to get your conceptual gag-reflex looked into by a mental health professional... just in case this leads to something even more serious.
14 Nov 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHBut, I thought that god created everything.
[b]Didn't god create sin?
No.
An innocent child, ravaged by some awful disease didn't ask Jesus to die for his sins as he has none.
You've missed the point. First, no one is born innocent, per se; we are all born with the sin nature, passed on by Adam. While the soul is created perfect, it inhabits a sin-cursed body. No one dies because ...[text shortened]... by a mental health professional... just in case this leads to something even more serious.[/b]
14 Nov 06
Originally posted by sugiezdDid God create darkness? No, rather, darkness is simply a word used to describe the absence of light. Darkness is not measurable in any way other than if light is present. In fact, darkness does not exist.
But, I thought that god created everything.
What about coldness does it exist? No, in fact, it does not. Cold is simply a term used to describe a lack of heat. Every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter transmit energy. Absolute zero is the total absence of heat. All matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature.
Therefore if neither darkness nor coldness exists neither were created by God. They are simply terms to reflect the absence of what has been created by God. Likewise sin is simply the absence of the love of God in ones heart. God did not create this absence, rather, man chose this absence when he chose to sin.
15 Nov 06
Originally posted by sugiezdI agree with Whodey's post...
So, you're a believer who simply accepts that such things are god's way?
"I would argue that all suffering is a result of sin in the world. Yet you say there are those who do not deserve to suffer like the children, for example. According to the Bible was Christ innocent? Yes he was yet he was described as a man of many sorrows and aquainted with grief and was utlimatly tortured and killed. Biblically how does one come to terms with this as well? It is apparent that once sin entered the world it struck at both innocent and guilty. Sin is a destructive force that does not descriminate between innocent and guilty. It is like being in the middle of a hurricane which will eventually take your life as well."
15 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyAbsolute rubbish.
Did God create darkness? No, rather, darkness is simply a word used to describe the absence of light. Darkness is not measurable in any way other than if light is present. In fact, darkness does not exist.
What about coldness does it exist? No, in fact, it does not. Cold is simply a term used to describe a lack of heat. Every object is susceptible ...[text shortened]... es heart. God did not create this absence, rather, man chose this absence when he chose to sin.
The comparison between sin and cold/darkness is entirely erroneous.
Without arguing whether or not the latter two exist or not (in itself debatable), sin is, as you say yourself, something which men "chose" to do and therefore must exist.
Nothing which exists was created by other than god, therefore god created sin.
Originally posted by sugiezdNothing which exists was created by [anything??] other than god, therefore god created sin.
Absolute rubbish.
The comparison between sin and cold/darkness is entirely erroneous.
Without arguing whether or not the latter two exist or not (in itself debatable), sin is, as you say yourself, something which men "chose" to do and therefore must exist.
Nothing which exists was created by other than god, therefore god created sin.
This is a rather simplistic view. Creating [wanted] condition X that allows for [unwanted] result Z is not tantamount to X being a sufficient cause for Z.
You can use semantics to justify your position (as you do here), but do try and understand that the topic is slightly more complex than you make it out to be.
17 Nov 06
Originally posted by NickstenI doubt God even exists, but you believe the bible, which claims that God created all humans, despite knowing in advance that all of them would be flawed, commit sins, and suffer. If all that is true, then God must bear the blame for starting it off.
Do you have prove He started it?
18 Nov 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemOr, be willing to pay the penalty of offering free will in the first place. Wait... He already did that!
I doubt God even exists, but you believe the bible, which claims that God created all humans, despite knowing in advance that all of them would be flawed, commit sins, and suffer. If all that is true, then God must bear the blame for starting it off.