Hell

@rajk999 said
Many of your so called references do not match the preceding comment, so the writer is a liar.

Two facts contradict the writers conclusions:
1. How can an man suffer for eternity if his soul is not immortal, living for eternity. If the soul is immortal please show where the bible says that.
2. Hell is cast in the the lake of fire. How can it therefore be eternal.

Feel free to explain how it is possible to experience everlasting torment without an immortal soul.

@dj2becker said
Feel free to explain how it is possible to experience everlasting torment without an immortal soul.

The onus is on you to show where the bible speaks of an immortal soul. Since you dodged the question there is obviously no such passage. Rather than come out like an honest man and say that there is none, you are deceitfully trying to wiggle your way out of your false teachings. Typical of church people. You have no integrity.

There is no such thing as an immprtal soul in the bible. There is no such thing as everlasting torment in the bible for anyone except fo Satan, The Beast and the false Prophet. These are three supernatural beings that God has earmarked for such punishment. Other evil people are simply cast into the lake of fire and are destroyed.

@dj2becker said
I thought you believed in moral relativism which means there are no moral weaknesses.

🙂 Moral relativism is only for the other guy, those that preach it can tell you where you are wrong and wrong absolutely. They can change the words you use and the meaning of them into other things as well, then instruct you as to the very the motivation behind your ideas they assigned to you.

@kellyjay said
Moral relativism is only for the other guy, those that preach it can tell you where you are wrong and wrong absolutely. They can change the words you use and the meaning of them into other things as well, then instruct you as to the very the motivation behind your ideas they assigned to you.

This stance about the nature of morality that you [judging by the inane and/or disingenuos things you say about it] seem totally incapable of understanding, let alone discussing, must feel very belittling for a person of your sullen huffy 'integrity'.

@rajk999 said
The onus is on you to show where the bible speaks of an immortal soul. Since you dodged the question there is obviously no such passage. Rather than come out like an honest man and say that there is none, you are deceitfully trying to wiggle your way out of your false teachings. Typical of church people. You have no integrity.

There is no such thing as an immprtal soul i ...[text shortened]... ed for such punishment. Other evil people are simply cast into the lake of fire and are destroyed.

The Bible mentions eternal life and eternal suffering. How is that possible without an eternal soul?

@dj2becker said
The Bible mentions eternal life and eternal suffering. How is that possible without an eternal soul?

Is that it? You Christians are such dumba$$es.

@rajk999 said
Is that it? You Christians are such dumba$$es.

Great rebuttal. Go Raj.

Govett on the chapter heading"The immortality of the soul or endless existence of All Men" -
Govett proposes how he would go about to solve the problem of what the Bible teaches related to the phrases.

That man's soul is immortal, may be certainly proved by Scripture. And yet, perhaps, the failing to find any passage of Scripture which directly asserts the immortality of the soul, has been one of the principal causes of the increase of the doctrine of the non-eternity of punishment. No doubt many have been startled at the prize of 100 [pounds] offered to any one who shall produce a text asserting the natural immortality of the soul of man. Yet none has discovered such a one; and the offerer's purse is safe, while yet the doctrine of man's eternal existence in happiness or misery is the teaching of the Holy Writ. Let me explain then. Failure in finding the object sought has been in consequence of the search being carried on in the wrong direction.

'The immortality of the soul ' is not a Scripture phrase. It arose from Greek philosophy. The sages of old inquired - 'Does the soul survive death? Does it retain its consciousness beyond the grave? Will it endure forever?' Along this course of investigation Socrates and Plato arrived at certain probabilities, beyond which the reason of man cannot pass. But the wise of old refused altogether the Scripture doctrine of the resurrection of the man, body and soul, from death. They rejected the resurrection of the body on two grounds; first, that the thing was impossible, even to God; and secondly, that even if it were possible, it was in the highest degree undesirable for man. For according to their views, matter was the cause of sin. It was because the soul was plunged into a material body, that it became contaminated with evil; and the philosopher's continual study was to wean the soul from the body. Death then was to such the man's deliverance from what was oppressive and vile.

... the Scripture evidence will conduct us to clear conclusions. Scripture does not speak of 'the immortality of the soul' because that phrase was suited to a teaching opposed to its own. But it does teach the endless existence of the man, body and soul, either "in life," that is eternal happiness; or under judgment and punishment, and in fire, that is, in eternal misery.

I. I propose then to trace, first, the existence of the separate soul from the moment of death up to the time of judgment. And then,

II. The existence of the man, body and soul united, from the hour of judgment to eternal ages.

[Eternal Suffering of the Wicked and Hades] Robert Govett, Shoettle Publishers, pgs. 149,150]

@sonship said
Govett on the chapter heading"The immortality of the soul or endless existence of All Men" -
Govett proposes how he would go about to solve the problem of what the Bible teaches related to the phrases.

[quote] That man's soul is immortal, may be certainly proved by Scripture. And yet, perhaps, the failing to find any passage of Scripture which directly asserts ...[text shortened]... ] [Eternal Suffering of the Wicked and Hades] [/b] Robert Govett, Shoettle Publishers, pgs. 149,150]

The teaching of the immortal soul is not in the bible. At least the article is honest enough to admit that, unlike many Christians here who want to lie and deceive readers. This is why nobody trusts Christians, they are just plain dishonest and crooked.

However the teaching that the soul, although it survives death of the body is not immortal is actually in the bible.

@rajk999 said
Is that it? You Christians are such dumba$$es.

Your dodge is noted.

It is interesting to note that there is a large amount of discussion about whether the soul is immortal by nature or only immortal in the sense that God is actively willing it to be immortal, and there is a significant amount of disagreement among early Christians.

@philokalia said
It is interesting to note that there is a large amount of discussion about whether the soul is immortal by nature or only immortal in the sense that God is actively willing it to be immortal, and there is a significant amount of disagreement among early Christians.

There is no disagreement in the bible neither among early Christians. There is no such doctrine in the bible about an immortal soul. The doctrine was brought in after Catholicism and it was necessary to go alongside the other false doctrine of eternal torment. They go hand in hand and they are both false. The church is not interested in truth but only in what doctrines suit their purpose.

@rajk999 said
There is no disagreement in the bible neither among early Christians. There is no such doctrine in the bible about an immortal soul. The doctrine was brought in after Catholicism and it was necessary to go alongside the other false doctrine of eternal torment. They go hand in hand and they are both false. The church is not interested in truth but only in what doctrines suit their purpose.

What was Christ referencing in the Bible when he spoke about eternal torment, a lake of fire, the worm that never dies, etc.?

@philokalia said
What was Christ referencing in the Bible when he spoke about eternal torment, a lake of fire, the worm that never dies, etc.?

Well lets take this one step at a time. You already acknowledged that there is no reference in the bible to an immortal soul.
Next, there is no reference in the bible from Jesus Christ about eternal torment or even torment of any kind. If there is please provide the reference.
Next, a lake of fire is a lake of fire. It burns and destroys.
As for 'worm that never dies', the fact that you probably are going to rely on that for proof of your immortal soul and eternal torment doctrine, tells me that you are grasping at straws.

Are all your firm doctrines based on vague bible passages?