@kellyjay saidHere’s one you might not have seen before which is pretty concrete...
I have not seen one that disputes it. I believe that that there is only only one God, so why would I argue that?
Jesus commanded the apostles:
"go and baptise in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit."
There is not one instance in the entire NT where the disciples baptised using the trinitarian formula - which incidentally is entirely relevant.
The disciples baptised using the name of Jesus every single time without fail - thus: I baptise you in the name of Jesus Christ
and never: I baptise you in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit
So what is the one single name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy ghost? it is Jesus. Jesus is the name of the Father and the holy spirit - it's right there in Acts!
Irrespective of doves, prayers, calling out, they are the same single person, the same single entity. Not three. Three is pagan and totally unscriptural. The disciples new this.
@galveston75 saidI’m with you brother, I know the feeling.
@KellyJay
Oh Kelly there have been a lot. Some I've asked 3 or 4 times on some but nothing answered back.
Oh btw...
You have 2 Gods
You have 2 Saviours
1 of your Gods is also an angel
To Kelly:
If I missed your comment on this scripture I apologize...
@galveston75 said
Not one scripture is flawed. It's ones comprehension, influence or sometimes just being head strong that gets one to see it in a not so correct light. Or one is just following what their religion tells them and what has always been excepted.
What is your thought on this scripture? Acts 8: 37?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. ...[text shortened]... not just say it truthfully and clearly so all of us would get a clear picture of who they are right?
Using your example of Father and Son, both father and son are human beings with the father having a higher authority. God is a Spirit that makes this harder to grasp in human terms when speaking about God.
@galveston75 said
@KellyJay
Yes when it comes to the trinity.
So no comment on Jesus's baptism?
Jesus's baptism is recorded in a few books of the bible. Just curious as to why you haven't commented on this yet? Matt 3:16,17
OK have to get back to work...
@galveston75 saidI am at work but I think your reference is not in Acts.
To Kelly:
If I missed your comment on this scripture I apologize...
@galveston75 said
Not one scripture is flawed. It's ones comprehension, influence or sometimes just being head strong that gets one to see it in a not so correct light. Or one is just following what their religion tells them and what has always been excepted.
What is your thought on this sc ...[text shortened]... r authority. God is a Spirit that makes this harder to grasp in human terms when speaking about God.
@galveston75 saidNo reason, we see the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit there, each doing something different. This would not be possible if God was one being with three titles, but One God three persons, yes.
@galveston75 said
@KellyJay
Yes when it comes to the trinity.
So no comment on Jesus's baptism?
Jesus's baptism is recorded in a few books of the bible. Just curious as to why you haven't commented on this yet? Matt 3:16,17
OK have to get back to work...
@KellyJay
Kelly I have an idea. If you are interested in a little challenge let's do this.
I know your an honest up standing Christian so let me propose to you a challenge.
Lets say you have never looked into a bible as many actually have not, which is very sad, but you know nothing of God or Jesus other then what you've heard in passing. And you've never picked up a bible in your life.
OK now really be honest here and if I show you this one scripture again to start with at MATT 3:17 where again it says God said this: "this is my son whom I have approved." and you did read it with a clear understanding of the English language, what would be your honest first remark on this event and what is being said here?
@KellyJay
Hummm? Well all 3 are not there. We see Jesus, we see a dove that the scripture says represents God's holy spirit, and we hear God's voice. So we actually only see one person or being, Jesus.
Why didn't Jehovah actually come down out of the cloud for all to see and speak then? Why didn't the holy spirit show itself but instead use a dove? Or since Jesus is God why did he do any of this in getting baptized? Why did he need approval at all, after all he is God?
@galveston75 saidI would tell anyone, looking at any topic, to study, and if the topic is complex, the higher the need for more than a cursory look is required. A high-level glance will never give anyone the necessary information required that could lead to gross misunderstanding of important details which people can do by not righty dividing the Word of God, or any other complex topic.
@KellyJay
Kelly I have an idea. If you are interested in a little challenge let's do this.
I know your an honest up standing Christian so let me propose to you a challenge.
Lets say you have never looked into a bible as many actually have not, which is very sad, but you know nothing of God or Jesus other then what you've heard in passing. And you've never picked up ...[text shortened]... English language, what would be your honest first remark on this event and what is being said here?
@kellyjay saidJesus never preached neither did He explain most of these church doctrines you refer to as important details. Your church teachings and the teachings of Christ are worlds apart.
I would tell anyone, looking at any topic, to study, and if the topic is complex, the higher the need for more than a cursory look is required. A high-level glance will never give anyone the necessary information required that could lead to gross misunderstanding of important details which people can do by not righty dividing the Word of God, or any other complex topic.
@galveston75 saidIn this case, who is doing what in this event is spelled out by the text. Right now, God is everywhere in His completeness, giving everything His full undivided attention all at the same time, always, our awareness is not required. If God chooses to reveal Himself, He can do that anyway He wants, not showing Himself is not a sign He isn't there.
@KellyJay
Hummm? Well all 3 are not there. We see Jesus, we see a dove that the scripture says represents God's holy spirit, and we hear God's voice. So we actually only see one person or being, Jesus.
Why didn't Jehovah actually come down out of the cloud for all to see and speak then? Why didn't the holy spirit show itself but instead use a dove? Or since Jesus is ...[text shortened]... why did he do any of this in getting baptized? Why did he need approval at all, after all he is God?
@KellyJay
Kelly it's not a complex question at all. If you had read that scripture for the first time and honestly knew nothing of the Bible or religion, I just want to see what you would think about this one scripture?
If I showed you a letter addressed to me from my father and the title on the letter said "to my son", what would your reaction be about this?
Would it not be a normal reaction in thinking this letter would be from my father to me? Or would you reaction be it is from the same person?
This is the whole crux of the trinity, and that it is very complicated as has been discussed. And why is that? A truth of something is the truth. No mysteries, no opinions, no theories, no confusions. Either a color is red or it's not. Rain is wet or it isn't.
Either God is 1 just God as the Bible says or he isn't. The bible never, never says anything about a trinity ever.
You can't build a whole doctrine on just a couple scriptures that vaguely kind of, maybe say they are the same being or whatever your version is which still makes no sense ( sorry ) and ignore all the rest of the Bible that is beyond being clear that they are not the same.
Then you throw in the BIGGY facts, yes facts that it all came from Babylon where all the info you could ever want to see, you choose to totally ignore.
I don't get it, I really don't.
So I guess we are in a agree to disagree junction.
@galveston75 saidNo there are two...
@KellyJay
Well all 3 are not there.
You have 2 Gods
You have 2 Saviours
1 of your Gods is also an angel...
Carry on.
@galveston75 saidI believe that God is 1; I don't dispute that. I will point out we don't measure truth by what we think merely by what someone thinks reading a text without understanding the rest of the word in Scripture. You think looking at a mathematical problem gives you an understanding of calculus? Why would one text give you a perfect understanding of God’s nature? Do you think the Most High God is so simplistic that is possible?
@KellyJay
Kelly it's not a complex question at all. If you had read that scripture for the first time and honestly knew nothing of the Bible or religion, I just want to see what you would think about this one scripture?
If I showed you a letter addressed to me from my father and the title on the letter said "to my son", what would your reaction be about this?
Wou ...[text shortened]... otally ignore.
I don't get it, I really don't.
So I guess we are in a agree to disagree junction.
@kellyjay saidWell you know my stand as it's clear from Genesis to Revelation that no where does it teach the trinity. So that being said I guess we are done with this subject.
I believe that God is 1; I don't dispute that. I will point out we don't measure truth by what we think merely by what someone thinks reading a text without understanding the rest of the word in Scripture. You think looking at a mathematical problem gives you an understanding of calculus? Why would one text give you a perfect understanding of God’s nature? Do you think the Most High God is so simplistic that is possible?
But you are seriously cheating yourself in not letting Jehovah direct you to the truths in the Bible. I hope that changes for you someday...
One finale scripture at that's all folks...
Was Jesus lower than God only while he was a man here on earth? No. Even after his death and resurrection, Jesus is described in the Bible as being subordinate to God. The apostle Paul reminds us that “God is supreme over Christ.” (1 Corinthians 11:3, Today’s English Version) The Bible says that in the future “when all things have been placed under Christ’s rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.”—1 Corinthians 15:28, WTS....
Still all equal, all powerful?