10 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71this comment really betrays a lack of ignorance bordering on the perverse. perhaps you will state, with clarity what Jehovahs Witnesses believe with regard to who the 144,000 are and who they believe the great crowd of revelation are. you will find these references in the book of revelation chapter fourteen and chapter seven respectively. What is their correlation, and their future prospects, and what is the scriptural basis for them having adopted this belief, if you cannot, then you shall make a public recantation of your statement and refrain form polluting the forum with your ignorance in future.
Yeah did not even think about that. O.T. Prophets live on earth while JW's live in Heaven.
Manny
it is plainly obvious that you have no real interest in actually discerning what Jehovahs Witnesses actually do profess, but insist on degrading an organisation, that has done more to disseminate Bible truth and education, in the face of persecution and prejudice, than most all others.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by dueceras has already been pointed out to you, i will not do so again, the divine name, which Jesus made known is represented by the Hebrew letters JHWH, and is commonly translated Jehovah and known as the tetragrammaton. God is not a proper name, i do not even think that you are so stupid as to try to deny it, or cloud it with arguments which essentially amount to a big fat zero.
the 2 most used references are El and elohiym. El is the moniker for God, and what ever descriptor used for God follows. my point stands. your anger is a result of your frustration in not being able to disprove my argument.
10 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettYes, why don't we ask him about the bloodshed? you know, the hundreds of millions who have been killed in senseless wars? the opulence of the churches while parishioners languish in poverty. the inquisitions, the burnings, the crusades, the campaigns to keep the bible in archaic languages, lest people should find out what it contains. why don't we ask him about those. the many Jehovahs witnesses who were killed at the hands of the Nazis because they would not take up arms against their fellow humans. why don't we ask him about that! why does he not mention the legal victories in human rights cases, even the victories that they have won in the supreme court of the United States of America guaranteeing freedom of thought and worship. why doesn't he speak about that.
And the same thing never happened within Christianity? Please!
10 Aug 09
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Originally posted by duecerthe new world translation was completed in the nineteen fifties or there about, Charles Russell died in nineteen fourteen, what did he do, get in his time machine and go back to the future, more Disney land ludicrous and erroneous assertions from you deucer. next time a kid from Jehovahs witnesses knocks on your door asking if you would like a free home bible study, id jump at the chance if I was you, for seriously, you might actually learn something about the Bible, even if its only Gods name.
it didn't stop russell who neither read, wrote or in any way understood greek from changing the tanslation of John 1:1 to fit his preconcieved theology.
10 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobielaughable. russell is a fraud.
the new world translation was completed in the nineteen fifties or there about, Charles Russell died in nineteen fourteen, what did he do, get in his time machine and go back to the future, more Disney land ludicrous and erroneous assertions from you deucer. next time a kid from Jehovahs witnesses knocks on your door asking if you would like a free ...[text shortened]... , for seriously, you might actually learn something about the Bible, even if its only Gods name.
edit: no seriously... he was tried and convicted of fraud.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by dueceroh ignorant one, how long must i put up with your nonsense, i had really said in my heart of hearts, i am done here. there is nothing left for me to say, let them believe what they want, they are only interested in tearing down, not in building up, why should i waste my time, being torn down at every turn, when the truth of the matter is perfectly clear, and there arguments so unreasonable and taken out of context that they may never be able to grasp the constituent parts so as to see the whole. this latest example being another rather insipid attempt, sigh, oh well, so be it.
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of hosts; "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)
NO OTHER GOD! this argument works against the JW teaching. Jesus could not be a lesser god, as there is NO OTHER GOD.
In the original Hebrew at Isaiah 44:6, there is no definite article with the words “first” and “last,” whereas in Jesus description of himself in the original Greek at Revelation 1:17, the definite article is found. So, grammatically, Revelation 1:17 indicates a title, whereas Isaiah 44:6 describes Jehovahs Godship.
Here is the verse from the new world translation of the Holy scriptures (peace be upon it)
(Isaiah 44:6) 6 “This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.
In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only almighty God, saying: “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.” When Jesus presents himself by the title “the First and the Last,” he is not claiming equality with Jehovah, the Grand Creator. He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God. In Isaiah, Jehovah was making a statement about His unique position as the true God (The Almighty). He is God eternal, and besides him there is indeed no God. Therefore it is in this sense that the verse is meant to be understood and that it is quite clear, there is none other to be termed God Almighty.
Christ's definition as 'a god', or as Moffat renders it 'divine' is perfectly compatible with this.
now Deucer, if you have finished attacking my faith with your futile attempts, i would be quite pleased, that unless you are seeking to impart some spiritual gift to me in order to incite me to love or fine works,
(Hebrews 10:24-25) . . .And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works. . . . but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near.
then i am done here, believe what you want, the matter is perfectly clear in my mind, i wish you well - regards robbie.
10 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThere is nothing to recant. I'm looking at historical evidence. Old editions of the "Awake" or whatever it is called. They the WTS were building a place for the old testament prophets to live. Explain that? Why? Because they believed in their eminent return. Everything that I've stated is from looking at historical evidence from the WTS /Awake. That is the thing about putting something in print how can you refute it. It's there for all to see.
this comment really betrays a lack of ignorance bordering on the perverse. perhaps you will state, with clarity what Jehovahs Witnesses believe with regard to who the 144,000 are and who they believe the great crowd of revelation are. you will find these references in the book of revelation chapter fourteen and chapter seven respectively. What is t ...[text shortened]... inate Bible truth and education, in the face of persecution and prejudice, than most all others.
Manny
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10 Aug 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIn the original Hebrew at Isaiah 44:6, there is no definite article with the words “first” and “last,” whereas in Jesus description of himself in the original Greek at Revelation 1:17, the definite article is found. So, grammatically, Revelation 1:17 indicates a title, whereas Isaiah 44:6 describes Jehovahs Godship.
oh ignorant one, how long must i put up with your nonsense, i had really said in my heart of hearts, i am done here. there is nothing left for me to say, let them believe what they want, they are only interested in tearing down, not in building up, why should i waste my time, being torn down at every turn, when the truth of the matter is perfectly ...[text shortened]... what you want, the matter is perfectly clear in my mind, i wish you well - regards robbie.
Robbie, haven't we had this discussion before? You can't make cross-linguistic assumptions like this. One language might use the article, while another might not, in certain grammatical contexts -- with no change in meaning. We can't assume that just because we do not find an article in the Hebrew, but we do in the Greek, that they mean something different.
10 Aug 09
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im done here Conrau K, in retrospect i must admit that i had a fairly interesting discussion with you with respect to the grammatical implications of the Sahidic coptic text and while i did not agree with your stance, the process made it perfectly clear that the ancient Coptic writers intended to make a distinction between the entity of God and the entity of Christ, this discussion here no doubt would yield similar results, but im done. I have neither the will nor the inclination, sorry for that, for it could have been at least mutually beneficial that through the learning process many things are thrown up, which may be conducive to broadening ones perspective, as it is, the forum is saturated with closed minds and insensitive hearts who wish to perpetuate their ignorance and prejudice with stupid references to personalities and the human propensity for error of judgement, i have no wish to enter such an arena at present - regards Robert.
10 Aug 09
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Originally posted by duecerthats correct duecer
nope, sorreeee, you quit, I win😛
number of persons killed by memebers of the churches of Christendom in the crusades and the last two world wars
conservative estimate 80, million
number of persons killed by Jehovahs witnesses in any war
actual figure 0
thats correct duecer , you won, you scored the most kills.