Originally posted by Dasa
Not only does Vedanta have religious principles and rules for the person on the path to God, but it also has laws and rules for the secular.

How can Vedic "laws and rules for the secular" apply to people who do not recognize or submit to Vedic "authority"?

Originally posted by FMF
How can Vedic "laws and rules for the secular" apply to people who do not recognize or submit to Vedic "authority"?

Re reading my own post, I realize secular was not the correct word to use, and just replace it with the word "society".......which would now make it say the following.

There are principles to follow for persons on the spiritual path, and laws and rules to follow by society as a whole, for the effective government of the people.

Originally posted by Dasa
Re reading my own post, I realize secular was not the correct word to use, and just replace it with the word "society".......which would now make it say the following.

There are principles to follow for persons on the spiritual path, and laws and rules to follow by society as a whole, for the effective government of the people.

So you favour "society" governed by a theocracy based on Vedic "authority"?

Originally posted by FMF
So you favour "society" governed by a theocracy based on Vedic "authority"?

Yes

Originally posted by Dasa
Yes

So - in terms of the political realm - your belief system advocates tyranny (that is to sayy imposing and perpetuating itself by force) while at the same time claiming that "people have a choice" and "people must make their own minds up"? How do you reconcile these two diametrically opposed 'principles' that you hold?

Originally posted by FMF
So - in terms of the political realm - your belief system advocates tyranny (that is to sayy imposing and perpetuating itself by force) while at the same time claiming that "people have a choice" and "people must make their own minds up"? How do you reconcile these two diametrically opposed 'principles' that you hold?

A Vedic society does not subscribe to tyranny.

Actually the leaders fully know the purpose of life and govern the people with that knowing.

Today's leaders are allowing all manner of nonsense to exist, so they may be elected, and if the people want places of gambling and intoxication to stay open to 4am in the morning, then the leaders will pass a stupid law allowing that.

In Vedic society there will be no such law, because the leaders govern with the actual welfare of the people in mind.

The whole of modern society is governed in such a way as to put sense pleasure before anything else, and therefore the people and the leaders do not know what is good for them.

Vedic society means civilized society.

Vedic society means advanced society.

Vedic society means peaceful society with no crime and corruption at every level.

Modern day non Vedic society means barbaric, corrupt, greedy, selfish, bewildered, fearful, anxious and definitely not happy and well.

Originally posted by Dasa
A Vedic society does not subscribe to tyranny.

But you've just conceded it would be a theocracy. And a theocracy - as you know - is a tyranny for those who do not acknowledge or submit to the theology that underpins it - in this case alleged Vedic "authority". How can it be a tyranny and not be a tyranny at the same time?

Originally posted by Dasa
Modern day non Vedic society means barbaric, corrupt, greedy, selfish, bewildered, fearful, anxious and definitely not happy and well.

I understand that your outlook is utterly pessimistic and negative - you've made that clear here for months and months - but your characterization of "non Vedic society" - in other words those who do not share your belief system and who organize their lives in accordance with different principles and spiritual insights from you - is a thinly veiled list of insults and smears. All "non Vedic societies" are barbaric, corrupt, greedy, selfish etc.? I thought you were going to mend your ways but it seems those who disagree with you are in for abuse and insult, same as ever.

Originally posted by FMF
I understand that your outlook is utterly pessimistic and negative - you've made that clear here for months and months - but your characterization of "non Vedic society" - in other words those who do not share your belief system and who organize their lives in accordance with different principles and spiritual insights from you - is a thinly veiled list of insul ...[text shortened]... ur ways but it seems those who disagree with you are in for abuse and insult, same as ever.

You once again support negatives....I dont

If you want to continue with your self styled spirituality that allows all manner of nonsense, without taking guidance from the spiritual authority, then go ahead....but be fully aware that your fabricated FMF spirituality is not spirituality at all, but an atheistic life style with a spiritual label attached for you delusional comfort..

You can fool some people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time.

Originally posted by Dasa
Modern day non Vedic society means barbaric, corrupt, greedy, selfish, bewildered, fearful, anxious and definitely not happy and well.

Take the community I live in here. It is without doubt "non-Vedic". Let's take my kampong or set of neighbourhoods, with its 10,000 or so citizens, with a deliberation/consultation/government system going right down to about the 20-household unit level. It's mostly residential land use here but there are retail outlets, some small businesses, places of worship, local government buildings. This is a significant slice of "society". Representative, we'll agree I think. And As far as I know, virtually nobody here recognizes or submits to Vedic "authority". Tell me, what is "barbaric, corrupt, greedy, selfish, bewildered, fearful, anxious and definitely unhappy" about the society I live in? You've made the assertion about it. Give me some examples. Be specific about this bit of non-Vedic society that I live in.

Originally posted by Dasa
You once again support negatives....I dont

I am not "supporting negatives". On the contrary, I am rejecting your rather insulting characterization of everything that does not conform to your belief system as being "negative". My outlook is optimistic, positive and life-affirming and seeks the good in people. Your dreary condemnation of everything and anything that conflicts with your philosophy is surely, in and of itself, an unequivocally "negative" outlook.

Originally posted by FMF
I am not "supporting negatives". On the contrary, I am rejecting your rather insulting characterization of everything that does not conform to your belief system as being "negative". My outlook is optimistic, positive and life-affirming and seeks the good in people. Your dreary condemnation of everything and anything that conflicts with your philosophy is surely, in and of itself, an unequivocally "negative" outlook.

I have described the world that we find ourselves in and it "is" as I say.

If there are pockets of persons trying to create utopia in their little nook of life where they are, fine......but I assure you behind closed doors, you will find animal cruelty, intoxication, gambling, infidelity and ignorance of the true purpose of our existence.

If one artificially creates a seemingly perfect life to their relative standards of what they think a perfect life is, ..........coming back to this world of suffering again after death will make that delusional existence worthless..

The only life to live that creates true perfection, is a true spiritual life that returns the person back home to Godhead.

Even if you live in a palace, living in ignorance of the truth of your existence, is living on par with your lower species.

Originally posted by Dasa
Even if you live in a palace, living in ignorance of the truth of your existence, is living on par with your lower species.

My lower species? What is that supposed to mean? What makes you assume that I am "living in ignorance" about the reality in my community here, while you feel able - based, quite clearly it seems, on no knowledge or understanding of this place at all - to make negative smears and fantastically generalized insults about the people I live among?

I have described the world that we find ourselves in and it "is" as I say.

If this is so, you will be able to give me specific examples of the "barbaric, corrupt, greedy, selfish, bewildered, fearful, anxious and definitely unhappy" characteristics of the non-Vedic society I live in? You've made the assertion. Back it up with some examples.

Originally posted by FMF
My lower species? What is that supposed to mean? What makes you assume that I am "living in ignorance" about the reality in my community here, while you feel able - based, quite clearly it seems, on no knowledge or understanding of this place at all - to make negative smears and fantastically generalized insults about the people I live among?

[b]I have descr he non-Vedic society I live in? You've made the assertion. Back it up with some examples.

Everything was covered in my previous few posts, now go away and think about that, and you will find all your answers.

By the way....your community supports animal cruelty, so even if you work to make your little community prissy and neat, we both know the cruelty of innocent animals is constantly on your hands.

Now this may be the last response to you, because with your constant word games, I cannot move in a forward direction because you are constantly intent on denying things that are undeniable.

Originally posted by Dasa
your community supports animal cruelty, so even if you work to make your little community prissy and neat, we both know the cruelty of innocent animals is constantly on your hands.

Now this may be the last response to you, because with your constant word games, I cannot move in a forward direction because you are constantly intent on denying things that are undeniable.

What word games?