07 May 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"Gods unconditional love"
It appears to me to be a popular concept at least among our Christian friends that Gods love is unconditional. After having searched the sacred texts I can find no reference to Gods unconditional love, quite the contrary and in fact God place restrictions upon his love. My interest in this idea is two fold, first, if the idea has a scriptural basis ...[text shortened]... res that we exercise faith in his son. That is not unconditional love, but love with a proviso.
Of course gods 'love' is conditional, very much so.
Example 1: The flood. If god loved the human population of the world so unconditionally, then why did he kill everyone but only eight people? It's like saying that Hitler loved jews unconditionally, so he would like to kill them all (but eight).
Example 2: The ultimate punishment in the lakes of fire. The condition to avoid the eternal punishment is to worship him. If you don't, then he doesn't love you and send you to suffer for eternity. That's a very strong condition.
Example 3: The right thinking of churches. Only if you accept all what the priest says and think right, then you are welcome. If you don't then you are will be harassed by members of the church. Like individual thinking that the earth is *not* center of the universe (Bruno was burned alive because he didn't agree with the church). This mean that if you don't accept the bible and the church unconditionally, then you will not have gods 'love'. That's doesn't show anything near Gods unconditional 'love'.
These three examples is enough to tell that the 'love' of god is not at all unconditional. Only if you fulfill some very clear and harsh conditions you will get his 'love'.
07 May 14
Originally posted by FabianFnasI agree that God's love must be conditional. I can't see God loving an evil scumbag like yourself.
[b]"Gods unconditional love"
Of course gods 'love' is conditional, very much so.
Example 1: The flood. If god loved the human population of the world so unconditionally, then why did he kill everyone but only eight people? It's like saying that Hitler loved jews unconditionally, so he would like to kill them all (but eight).
Example 2: The ul ...[text shortened]... unconditional. Only if you fulfill some very clear and harsh conditions you will get his 'love'.[/b]
07 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasthis is fine but i am looking for evidence for the idea of unconditional love. for example,
[b]"Gods unconditional love"
Of course gods 'love' is conditional, very much so.
Example 1: The flood. If god loved the human population of the world so unconditionally, then why did he kill everyone but only eight people? It's like saying that Hitler loved jews unconditionally, so he would like to kill them all (but eight).
Example 2: The ul ...[text shortened]... unconditional. Only if you fulfill some very clear and harsh conditions you will get his 'love'.[/b]
(1 John 4:8) . . .God is love
which may lend itself to some kind of interpretation
or
(Matthew 5:45) since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous
you know things like that. If after having searched scripture and we can find no basis for the belief, surely we are entitled to ask from whence does the idea come? and we are led to the conclusion that it must be indicative of a faith that is based on a purely emotional level, for we have no rational basis for believing it to be the case. Is it not so? I am not trying to attack anyone merely trying to understand from where these things arise.
07 May 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBest robbie, do you agree with me that the 'love' of god is very much conditional? Or do you think that his love really is unconditional?
this is fine but i am looking for evidence for the idea of unconditional love. for example,
(1 John 4:8) . . .God is love
which may lend itself to some kind of interpretation
or
(Matthew 5:45) since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous
you know things like that. If ...[text shortened]... so? I am not trying to attack anyone merely trying to understand from where these things arise.
Originally posted by FabianFnasPersonally i think that God is not sentimental like humans. It is clear that he requires certain acts from his worshipers, whether this makes his love conditional i cannot say, but it appears to me that in order to be blessed by God and a recipient of his love then some conditions need to be met.
Best robbie, do you agree with me that the 'love' of god is very much conditional? Or do you think that his love really is unconditional?
For example he refuses to hear the prayers of those who have innocent blood on their hands, or he refuses to let those who are adulterers enter into the Kingdom of the heavens. These prerequisites seem to me demonstrate that Gods love is not unconditional.
07 May 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFor me "unconditional" means "with no conditions at all". It cannot be uncoditional if there is any condition attached to it, not even the tiniest.
Personally i think that God is not sentimental like humans. It is clear that he requires certain acts from his worshipers, whether this makes his love conditional i cannot say, but it appears to me that in order to be blessed by God and a recipient of his love then some conditions need to be met.
So if gods 'love' is unconditional, then there isn't any condition to achieve his 'love'. You get his 'love' unconditionally.
But if his 'love' is almost unconditional, then it's another matter that I cannot argue with. Because then we can decide how many conditions needed to get hos 'love'.
However, the three examples I gave is not some simple conditions, they are quite severe. If you don't meet these conditions then you cannot get his 'love'. I don't think that people swimming in the eternal lake of fire can ever feel the 'love' of god, not by a longshot.
So why call something unconditional, when in fact there are conditions attached to it? That's my question.
07 May 14
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Originally posted by FabianFnasAn atheist does not believe in Creationism and you do not believe in Creationism. Most atheists are scumbags and some are numbnuts to me. However, that might be due to alzheimer's. Who knows?
"You are an atheist, right?"
No, I am not.
And what does this has to do with anything? Are every atheist a scumbag to you?
07 May 14
Originally posted by FabianFnasyes it appears to me that there are conditions attached to being a recipient of Gods love. What I want to explore is the other side, whether a case can be made for Gods unconditional love, so far the evidence has been less than compelling.
For me "unconditional" means "with no conditions at all". It cannot be uncoditional if there is any condition attached to it, not even the tiniest.
So if gods 'love' is unconditional, then there isn't any condition to achieve his 'love'. You get his 'love' unconditionally.
But if his 'love' is almost unconditional, then it's another matter that I ca ...[text shortened]... l something unconditional, when in fact there are conditions attached to it? That's my question.
07 May 14
Originally posted by RJHindsYou demonstrate very well my example 3.
An atheist does not believe in Creationism and you do not believe in Creationism. Most atheists are scumbags and some are numbnuts to me.
Not every theist believes in creationism. Some do, some do not. Do you think that those not believing in creation are not real christians?
I try to be friendly, yet you deliberately insults me, calling me scumbag. That's not nice.
07 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasit is more a reflection of Hindus than it is of you, he simply damages himself.
You demonstrate very well my example 3.
Not every theist believes in creationism. Some do, some do not. Do you think that those not believing in creation are not real christians?
I try to be friendly, yet you deliberately insults me, calling me scumbag. That's not nice.