22 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Well a personal interpretation doesn't matter, it's what's real and what these scriptures mean in reality that does. Either it is figurative or it's literal with nothing in between.
Here is a nice simple question Galveston.
Manny takes a literal view, and you take a figurative view of the events relating to the state of the earth in the future. These are simply personal interpretations. The way the Bible is worded there is often no possible way that one interpretation is correct.
Are there any negative consequences of believing Manny's point of view. .. say on judgment day?
So what one feels "it might be" is irrelevant . Either everything is destroyed or it isn't..right? Either there will be a literal new heavens and new earth or there isn't..Right?
22 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Discussion between you and Manny on the interpretation is not the issuse. The fact is that what is going to happen to the Earth in the future will happen.
Well a personal interpretation doesn't matter, it's what's real and what these scriptures mean in reality that does. Either it is figurative or it's literal with nothing in between.
So what one feels "it might be" is irrelevant . Either everything is destroyed or it isn't..right? Either there will be a literal new heavens and new earth or there isn't..Right?
My question remains unanswered. Here it is ... Are there any negative consequences of believing Manny's point of view. .. say on judgment day?
22 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Well your wrong as the correct understanding does matter greatly. If one has the wrong understandings and makes the wrong moves in life spiritually then one may not find that narrow gate that the bible speaks of that only a small portion will find.... So yes a wrong viewpoint may mean one misses out on eternal life just as the Bible says that not all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Discussion between you and Manny on the interpretation is not the issuse. The fact is that what is going to happen to the Earth in the future will happen.
My question remains unanswered. Here it is ... Are there any negative consequences of believing Manny's point of view. .. say on judgment day?
You know these scriptures so you should know the answer to your question.
22 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75How does believing that the new heavens and the new earth either literal or figurative, affect your spiritual life ? Are you a better person and more worthy of salvation becuase you think its figurative? Or is Manny less worthy because he thinks its literal? Clearly you think he is.
Well your wrong as the correct understanding does matter greatly. If one has the wrong understandings and makes the wrong moves in life spiritually then one may not find that narrow gate that the bible speaks of that only a small portion will find.... So yes a wrong viewpoint may mean one misses out on eternal life just as the Bible says that not all who ...[text shortened]... Lord will be saved.
You know these scriptures so you should know the answer to your question.
Can you quote from the Bible apart from vague verses about "narrow gate" and "Calling on the name of the Lord" etc etc , how you arrived at that conclusion ?
22 Jul 10
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Originally posted by Rajk999Did I say Manny was less deserving and I was more? Don't think. So it seems your trying to start something that's not needed as usual.
How does believing that the new heavens and the new earth either literal or figurative, affect your spiritual life ? Are you a better person and more worthy of salvation becuase you think its figurative? Or is Manny less worthy because he thinks its literal? Clearly you think he is.
Can you quote from the Bible apart from vague verses about "narrow gate" and "Calling on the name of the Lord" etc etc , how you arrived at that conclusion ?
But to the contrtay I like Manny a lot and I hope he really searches the Bible and I want him to make sure he has the correct understanding of what those scriptures mean as they can only mean one thing.
And there is nothing vague about what those scriptures are saying. They explain that on a global scale there will be FEW that will make it thru that gate into God's favor and it is Jesus's command that we help all to find that way.
What do you do to help others find the truth's in the Bible? No need to answer as I already know...
22 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Manny said that you are twisting the scriptures. He is already sure that he has the correct interpretation.
Did I say Manny was less deserving and I was more? Don't think. So it seems your trying to start something that's not needed as usual.
But to the contrtay I like Manny a lot and I hope he really searches the Bible and I want him to make sure he has the correct understanding of what those scriptures mean as they can only mean one thing.
And there is n ...[text shortened]... you do to help others find the truth's in the Bible? No need to answer as I already know...
And what I (and Manny as well) do to help others find the truth in the Bible is to expose the lies and deceit of the JW group.
22 Jul 10
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Originally posted by Rajk999Lol...Whatever. But I've read the bible many times and I don't believe I've read the text where Jesus tells us to go around as an assignment to expose false things people may believe. But there are scriptures where it shows we are to tell others about the "Good News of the Kindom".
Manny said that you are twisting the scriptures. He is already sure that he has the correct interpretation.
And what I (and Manny as well) do to help others find the truth in the Bible is to expose the lies and deceit of the JW group.
So it seems you've taken it upon yourself to do something different then what Jesus said to do as in going door to door as he did. So what he told us to do is not good enough for you?
22 Jul 10
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Originally posted by galveston75The JWs are the biggest false prophets the world has ever seen. Are you that blind? Everyone on this forum knows that.
Lol...Whatever. But I've read the bible many times and I don't believe I've read the text where Jesus tells us to go around as an assignment to expose false things people may believe. But there are scriptures where it shows we are to tell others about the "Good News of the Kindom".
So it seems you've taken it upon yourself to do something different th ...[text shortened]... o as in going door to door as he did. So what he told us to do is not good enough for you?
Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:16
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:17
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matthew 7:18
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:19
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 7:20
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by Rajk999Whatever dude....
The JWs are the biggest false prophets the world has ever seen. Are you that blind? Everyone on this forum knows that.
Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:16
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7: ...[text shortened]... And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
23 Jul 10
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I think that there will be an earth and heavens forever but God is going to something there is no doubt. Even if the heavens and earth are destroyed by fire God can put people back together right? This is even by your own beliefs that this is possible. It's a kinda fleshly clinging I see G-75. Absent from the body means present with God. So you believe Rev 20-21 to be figurative? By the way Steve I want you to know that you can dwell with God almighty on that day this is God's promise to you my friend. Behold the tabernacle of God is among men. The lie is that some special elite 144,000 will be the only ones dwelling with God. I challenge you to read Revelation 20 and 21 without bias.
Manny
23 Jul 10
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Originally posted by Rajk999I'm not !00% sure I have the absolute correct interpretation but God has made the plain plain. Some parts of scriptures are hard to understand but it is the Spirit that reveals the words anyway. You can understand intellectually but until the spirit reveals it does not matter.
Manny said that you are twisting the scriptures. He is already sure that he has the correct interpretation.
And what I (and Manny as well) do to help others find the truth in the Bible is to expose the lies and deceit of the JW group.
Manny
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by menace71But sadly he seems to reveal different things to different people - often in contradiction to one another.
Some parts of scriptures are hard to understand but it is the Spirit that reveals the words anyway. You can understand intellectually but until the spirit reveals it does not matter.
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadWell is that really true? Just thinking about that a little it would really make for a lot of confusion and is that what God or Jesus would want to do to us? If one were teaching their child or children very important matters in life, would it seem logical for the parent to teach these things to a child in a confusing way or to teach their children in ways that seem to contradict? Why would we do that to our children and why would God do that on purpose to us? Would that be loving to us on his part?
But sadly he seems to reveal different things to different people - often in contradiction to one another.
Jesus never did that to his diciples when he was here on earth, so could it be that someone else is confusing spiritual matters to humans?
23 Jul 10
Originally posted by galveston75Lots of good questions. How about attempting some answers?
Well is that really true? Just thinking about that a little it would really make for a lot of confusion and is that what God or Jesus would want to do to us? If one were teaching their child or children very important matters in life, would it seem logical for the parent to teach these things to a child in a confusing way or to teach their children in wa ...[text shortened]... our children and why would God do that on purpose to us? Would that be loving to us on his part?
All I know is that a large proportion of Christians I speak to about the Bible say as you did that you can only understand it with the help of the Spirit, but when they give their understanding thus obtained it contradicts what other Christians making the same claim have said.
[b]Jesus never did that to his diciples when he was here on earth...?
How would you know? More intervention from the Spirit perhaps?
23 Jul 10
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Originally posted by twhiteheadWell again it would not make sense that any direction from God or his son would intentionally be made to be be confusing or to contradict itself. Truth is truth. And true it does take God's spirit to be on one in order to understand and grasp those truths especially when an issue is figurative such as the "new heavens and new earth" as has been discussed.
Lots of good questions. How about attempting some answers?
All I know is that a large proportion of Christians I speak to about the Bible say as you did that you can only understand it with the help of the Spirit, but when they give their understanding thus obtained it contradicts what other Christians making the same claim have said.
[b]Jesus never d ...[text shortened]... es when he was here on earth...?
How would you know? More intervention from the Spirit perhaps?
But the other eliment is Satan. Some scriptures that describe him say,
John 14:30 says he is the "Ruler of this world."
1 John 5:19 says "The whole world is lying in his power."
Since he is the ruler of this world, would that not include his influance and the confusing of religions as a whole possibly?
And Satan's main trait is this: 2 Cor 11:14. "He turns himself into an Angle of light." which refers to him seemingly giving out spiritual insight to the world that he is the ruler of.
And since there are so many beliefs and opinions and confusions on the Bible and it's messages, would it not make sense that Satan would be behind this as he is the enemy of God and at this time is in control of the world?