Originally posted by @dj2becker
There is no such thing as absolute freedom.

This is not about absolute freedom, it's about free will.

Originally posted by @divegeester
This is not about absolute freedom, it's about free will.

If we have free will, we can choose either to obey or disobey God. If we have no free will we can't make decisions.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If we have free will, we can choose either to obey or disobey God. If we have no free will we can't make decisions.

Correct. IF...

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If we have free will, we can choose either to obey or disobey God. If we have no free will we can't make decisions.

So from the second of these assertions, the feeling that we do make decisions is an illusion to be explained, if there is no free will.

Originally posted by @vivify

Numbers 23:19

19 God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.

1 Samuel 2:30

“Therefore the Lord, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the Lord declares: ‘Far be it from me!

“Perhaps they will listen and each ...[text shortened]... cerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds.”—Jeremiah 26:3.

The first verse God seems to be saying that the family line will be ministers to him, but certain ones it seems will not be. I don't see the contradiction.

In the second example, God laid out for Moses what exactly the Children of Israel would do and how they would fall away. He knew from the get go. God is simply reiterating what it takes for man to reconcile with him and what he knows will eventually come to fruition.

Originally posted by @vivify
The bible doesn't say that. You're adding adding to the bible, a big no-no according biblical doctrine. It's also erroneous, since Paul makes it clear that human decisions plays no part in who God chooses to be saved.

the bible says that some people were created for wrath. Obviously, that means God explicitly created people to go hell; he had no intention of letting them choose salvation.

Again, God knew that there would be those who would reject him. To say otherwise would be to say that we have free will with no one ever rejecting him. Would that really be free will? No.

Originally posted by @whodey
The first verse God seems to be saying that the family line will be ministers to him, but certain ones it seems will not be. I don't see the contradiction.

The very next verse:

31 The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your priestly house, so that no one in it will reach old age

Saying "no one" in that house "will reach old age" is clearly a threat of death---for everyone, not just "certain ones".

In the second example, God laid out for Moses what exactly the Children of Israel would do and how they would fall away. He knew from the get go. God is simply reiterating what it takes for man to reconcile with him and what he knows will eventually come to fruition.

And God is still explicitly saying he'll change his mind under certain conditions.

FMF: You cited me in your OP. Why not quote the piece on love and choice that you were referring to?

Originally posted by @whodey
Did you not say that you do not have the choice to love or not love someone?

Just quote the piece by me on love and choice that you were referring to

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If we have free will, we can choose either to obey or disobey God. If we have no free will we can't make decisions.

Let us get the elephant out of the way. You speak about God as if it were a fact of reality. But it is just a made up thing in your head, with no factual basis whatsoever.

So you sound totally stupid. Have you even researched this subject, of course you did not.

Originally posted by @whodey
Again, God knew that there would be those who would reject him. To say otherwise would be to say that we have free will with no one ever rejecting him. Would that really be free will? No.

That is an interesting issue. Despite yourself.

Foreknowledge of events yet to happen is mysterious. If you KNOW my choice, did I have one?

Originally posted by @apathist
Let us get the elephant out of the way. You speak about God as if it were a fact of reality. But it is just a made up thing in your head, with no factual basis whatsoever.

So you sound totally stupid. Have you even researched this subject, of course you did not.

You make it sound like God does not exist and this is just some made up thing in your head. You just sound stupid.

Originally posted by @whodey
Again, God knew that there would be those who would reject him. To say otherwise would be to say that we have free will with no one ever rejecting him. Would that really be free will? No.

Where in the Bible say that God just knew and did not create things to do what they do?

Originally posted by @eladar
You make it sound like God does not exist and this is just some made up thing in your head. You just sound stupid.

I'm sorry your are hurt. But don't you ask yourself why you reject shiva, who made everything? And then broke it.

Originally posted by @apathist
I'm sorry your are hurt. But don't you ask yourself why you reject shiva, who made everything? And then broke it.

I am not hurt. I am just stating a fact.

Originally posted by @apathist
Let us get the elephant out of the way. You speak about God as if it were a fact of reality. But it is just a made up thing in your head, with no factual basis whatsoever.

So you sound totally stupid. Have you even researched this subject, of course you did not.

To me God is a reality. I'm sorry if this sounds totally stupid to you. If you feel that you have in fact researched this subject feel free to enlighten me.