Spirituality
04 Jan 17
04 Jan 17
Originally posted by divegeesterIn had already mentioned to you of the two kinds but you ignored it. Here we go again. Paul identified two kinds of Christians saints, all saved by grace through faith :
What other kind is there which saves?
- those who will enter the Kingdom of God who live righteously
- those who will not.enter the Kingdom of God because of their unrighteous living
This is preached by Paul to all of the churches. The essence of the teachings of Paul is as follows:
- how is it that Gentiles now have an opportunity for eternal life through Christ
- what is 'saved by grace through faith' - a gift of God and not because of works
- the life of righteousness which is NECESSARY for eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
The book of Ephesians provides an example of these teachings, but the same teachings can be seen in all of Paul's letters. I will copy and paste a reply to Josephw here, about Pauls letter to Ephesians, from the thread 'Light v Darkness', because he also thinks that all who are saved by grace will get eternal life. Here it is:
Josephw said: Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. By grace through faith plus nothing = eternal life.
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My Reply : Yes, but again thats like about 5% of the teachings of the Apostles, and you will find absolutely nowhere that Christ said anything similar. So your doctrine is incomplete at best
In Ephesians Paul addresses the brethren there as Christian saints telling them that they are saved by grace, {Eph 2], and then later in Eph 5 he tells the very same saints that much more is needed to enter the Kingdom of God... so right there we can see that your 'plus nothing' comment is wrong. Here is what Paul says that needs to be done IN ADDITION TO BEING SAVED BY GRACE...
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:1-5 KJV)
The mistake made by your church doctrine is that they equate:
'saved by grace' with 'eternal life'.
These two things have different meanings as is obvious if you were to read the whole of Ephesians, in fact any of the writings of Paul. He tells all the churches that they are saved by grace through faith. But then also tells then that they will not enter the Kingdom of God or get eternal life unless they also live righteously and do good works.
So in the case of the Ephesian brethren - Paul addressed all of them as Christian saints, and all were saved by grace but not all will have inheritance in the kingdom of God. Only those who live righteously, do good works, avoid sin etc .. in other words it is only those who follow the commandments of Christ will enter the Kingdom of God.
There is therefore NO DIFFERENCE between the teachings of Christ [which you seem to think does not apply] and the teachings of the Apostles."
05 Jan 17
Originally posted by Rajk999You are just assuming that Paul is saying that those not living righteously are saved. He never specifically says those exact words.
In had already mentioned to you of the two kinds but you ignored it. Here we go again. Paul identified two kinds of Christians saints, all saved by grace through faith :
- those who will enter the Kingdom of God who live righteously
- those who will not.enter the Kingdom of God because of their unrighteous living
This is preached by Paul to all of t ...[text shortened]... s of Christ [which you seem to think does not apply] and the teachings of the Apostles."[/quote]
05 Jan 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkIf you are saved by faith your works will follow, its no different than seeing an honest man
Even though we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. True faith goes hand in hand with obedience to God. True faith will be visible in our deeds.
the fruit of his life will be a reflection of his honestly. The difference between a man saved
by grace and one working for it, one is attempting to earn it will stand before God with his
attempt of being good enough. The one saved by grace knows he will never be good
enough and trusts in Jesus for God's grace, not his own works least he thinks he can
boast about it.
Originally posted by KellyJayHence the teaching that those who have rejected the faith can still be saved by works is unbiblical.
If you are saved by faith your works will follow, its no different than seeing an honest man
the fruit of his life will be a reflection of his honestly. The difference between a man saved
by grace and one working for it, one is attempting to earn it will stand before God with his
attempt of being good enough. The one saved by grace knows he will never be ...[text shortened]... h and trusts in Jesus for God's grace, not his own works least he thinks he can
boast about it.
05 Jan 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkAnd what's more is that it is unbiblical that anyone is or was ever saved by works. Faith has always been the issue. Before Jesus' death on the cross faith was expressed by obedience to the law, but now faith's object is in the finished work of the cross.
Hence the teaching that those who have rejected the faith can still be saved by works is unbiblical.
In this dispensation of the grace of God we are no longer under the law, but under grace for salvation.
Works follow after. Doing works cannot save. Doing good works and not being involved in grossly immoral living is the outworking of grace in our lives when we walk by faith and not in the flesh.
05 Jan 17
Originally posted by KellyJayExactly. Grace living is walking after the spirit and not after the flesh. Good works are the consequence of grace.
If you are saved by faith your works will follow, its no different than seeing an honest man
the fruit of his life will be a reflection of his honestly. The difference between a man saved
by grace and one working for it, one is attempting to earn it will stand before God with his
attempt of being good enough. The one saved by grace knows he will never be ...[text shortened]... h and trusts in Jesus for God's grace, not his own works least he thinks he can
boast about it.
The law only condemns.