18 Oct 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasDo you think your second paragraph is an example of "respecting" other people's beliefs?
How do you think your belief will be respected when you don’t respect others beliefs?
Do you really think that you have the absolute Truth on your hand, and no one else? Who are you, God himself?
18 Oct 06
1 edit
Originally posted by lucifershammerliteswordatlitespeed wrote:
Do you think your second paragraph is an example of "respecting" other people's beliefs?
"Man all these idiots trying to take down Christianity at the root...
Does God exist... The obvious answer is... Yes"
I answered:
"How do you think your belief will be respected when you don’t respect others beliefs?
Do you really think that you have the absolute Truth on your hand, and no one else? Who are you, God himself?"
You write:
"Do you think your second paragraph is an example of "respecting" other people's beliefs?"
One of my principles is to respect every one that respects every one else. My strong feeling is that liteswordatlitespeed doesn't respect others by calling them 'idiots'. Therefore I don't have any obligation to respect him.
But I never disrespected him by calling him 'idiot' or something alike, just by asking him if he has the absolute Truth himself, as only God himself can have.
Now, do you really think he can't stand my criticism? Do you really think his faith in his God is so weak so he can't stand my words?
I don't think so. He has God on his side, doesn't he?
18 Oct 06
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasOne of my principles is to respect every one that respects every one else.
liteswordatlitespeed wrote:
"Man all these idiots trying to take down Christianity at the root...
Does God exist... The obvious answer is... Yes"
I answered:
"How do you think your belief will be respected when you don’t respect others beliefs?
Do you really think that you have the absolute Truth on your hand, and no one else? Who are you, God can't stand my words?
I don't think so. He has God on his side, doesn't he?
Either you're a hypocrite for saying that you only respect those who respect "everyone else" (since you clearly don't respect everyone else); or you simply mean that you respect those who respect you and your views.
Further, you don't need be God himself to see that certain views are erroneous and not worthy of respect. If I say that your RHP handle is not FabianFnas, then I am simply wrong. You are under no obligation to "respect" my view out of some misguided sense of tolerance. Nor would you be disrespecting me for pointing out that I'm just plain wrong.
EDIT: I didn't say he can't stand your criticism. So what are you on about in your last paragraph?
18 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerThen you have misunderstood my words or have different opinions about the value of 'respect'.
[b]One of my principles is to respect every one that respects every one else.
Either you're a hypocrite for saying that you only respect those who respect "everyone else" (since you clearly don't respect everyone else); or you simply mean that you respect those who respect you and your views.
Further, you don't need be God himself to see tha ...[text shortened]... tolerance. Nor would you be disrespecting me for pointing out that I'm just plain wrong.[/b]
18 Oct 06
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasWhy don't you explain it to me?
Then you have misunderstood my words or have different opinions about the value of 'respect'.
You're basically saying that no religion has the fullness of Truth* and therefore must accept every other religion as valid. Anyone who says their religion is "true" and others are not does not "respect" other religions; in your view, they are not themselves worthy of respect.
Correct?
* Not to be confused with 'complete Truth', i.e. the answers to everything.
18 Oct 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerWell, calling people of another opinion for idiots can't be said to show others respect. Can we agree to that?
Why don't you explain it to me?
You're basically saying that no religion has the fullness of Truth* and therefore must accept every other religion as valid. Anyone who says their religion is "true" and others are not does not "respect" other religions; in your view, they are not themselves worthy of respect.
Correct?
* Not to be confused with 'complete Truth', i.e. the answers to everything.
About validity of other religions is a totally another question. To say that one must respect other religions doesn't say that you have to agree on everything the other religion states, not at all. The respect for other religions is to give everyone the right to believe in what he thinks being a valid truth. I don't demand you to agree of what I say, but I do want the right to believe whatever I want (to certain extents).
I am basically saying that no religion has monopoly on The Truth, that's right, and I think this covers it all. What The Truth really is, we may, perhaps, experience after our own death.
18 Oct 06
Originally posted by FabianFnasBecause I think no religion can claim absolute truth (and all of them need such claims, especially the institutionalized ones) is one of the reasons why I'm not a theist.
This is interesting. Does an religion own The Truth?
For example:
Jesus is thought for a Christian that Jesus is divine, son of god, right? It is considered being a Truth.
Jesus is thought for a Muslim that Jesus is one of the most important prophets, but not the son of God. It is also considered being a Truth.
Jesus is known for Jews, not to be so ...[text shortened]...
Every religion member who says 'Mine, Mine!!!" is not worthy of any respect, in my opoinion.
What purpose can religion serve if it makes no absolute claims about spirituality?
Note also that a religion claiming absolute truth on one issue is not tantamount to intolerance, as I think you are implying. It all depends on the reaction when faced with someone who believes otherwise.
18 Oct 06
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasI think we agree basically on the issue of 'respect'.
Well, calling people of another opinion for idiots can't be said to show others respect. Can we agree to that?
About validity of other religions is a totally another question. To say that one must respect other religions doesn't say that you have to agree on everything the other religion states, not at all. The respect for other religions is to give ev is covers it all. What The Truth really is, we may, perhaps, experience after our own death.
I am still not sure what you mean by "no religion has monopoly on The Truth". If religion A says that X is true about God, and religion B says that ~X is true about God -- then one and only one of them can be correct (given that God exists). On this matter, religion A (and other religions that agree with it) would indeed have a "monopoly on The Truth".
18 Oct 06
Originally posted by PalynkaWhat do you mean by "absolute truth"?
Because I think no religion can claim absolute truth (and all of them need such claims, especially the institutionalized ones) is one of the reasons why I'm not a theist.
What purpose can religion serve if it makes no absolute claims about spirituality?
Note also that a religion claiming absolute truth on one issue is not tantamount to intolerance, as ...[text shortened]... ou are implying. It all depends on the reaction when faced with someone who believes otherwise.
See also my question to Fabian's point on "monopoly of The Truth".
18 Oct 06
Originally posted by timebombtedTake a look at this and see what heaven me.
Earth exists = True
Heaven exists = Unknown
God = unknown
So how can we have proof that someone knows something when they themselves are unproven and the thing you claim they know is also unproven.
Go on give us one last effort........ careful....... really think this time....
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heaven
18 Oct 06
ok i admit idiots was too heavy of a word. just forget i ever said that thing.
I cant keep up with your arguments.
list the problems you have with the Bible, heaven, God, or anything else like that in a neat bulleted list and i will respond to each one of them as they come.
18 Oct 06
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaOkay. For the moment let's just use G as a catch-all term to refer to the theistic God, Brahman, Eternal Truth, whatever.
I believe it's exactly what you mean by Truth.
1. Do you think it's possible for a religion A to assert a true proposition about G?
2. Do you think it's possible for a religion B to exist such that every proposition it currently asserts about G is true?
3. Do you think it's possible for a religion C to exist such that every proposition it currently asserts about G is true and it currently asserts every true proposition about G that is asserted by any other religion?
18 Oct 06
Originally posted by liteswordatlitespeedI have a big problem with it. You claim the the bible teach you that Juses is GOD. Where in the bible did Juses say "I'm GOD, worship me. I'm your GOD came for your salvation". And I mean that Juses say that during his 3 years lifetime.
ok i admit idiots was too heavy of a word. just forget i ever said that thing.
I cant keep up with your arguments.
list the problems you have with the Bible, heaven, God, or anything else like that in a neat bulleted list and i will respond to each one of them as they come.
Answer this point and we can move to another point