Originally posted by souverein
Do you feel you were born as a sinner or did you become a sinner?
And does that mean you see yourself as an evil person?

The whole race has the same nature, myself included as we grow up we sin, as
a race we do those things that I have said are evil.
Kelly

Originally posted by obsesschess
Do the majority of people of the popular faiths really, truly believe that there is a supernatural hell awaiting those serious sinners in the afterlife (in this day and age)?

If you want a definition of 'evil', then maybe a suitable definition is - creating an eternal torment for sins committed within a relatively short, finite period of existence as ...[text shortened]...
I question whether the concept of 'good' and 'evil' has any basis in reality anyway.

“...It is hard to swallow the premise that:

1. an all powerful being, who creates the universe and everything in it, for some yet unknown grand design or purpose
2. has his eye on the milky way backwater (Earth) and notes the behaviour of some few billion glorified apes over the ages
3. to ensure that any grave sin(s) which have been committed are noted for future punishment by never-ending torment in the here-after.
...”

that's good!

I find it extraordinary hard/impossible to express just how extraordinary totally absurd I see the Christian position as being (more absurd than the belief in the tooth-fairy) but I think the above is a small start.

Originally posted by KellyJay
The whole race has the same nature, myself included as we grow up we sin, as
a race we do those things that I have said are evil.
Kelly

I feel sorry for you to feel that way. I don't think we are an evil race. We make mistakes and we even may ruin our world, but that has little to do with evilness, but rather with ignorant and contra productive behaviour.
Yes we do stupid things when our ego becomes to dominant. But that is very natural, we see that all around in nature. A tree tries to overgrow his neighbours, sometimes to the extent that it kills the neighbouring plants by lack of food and light. Would you call that evil?

Originally posted by buckky
It appears to me the fast majority of people are decent good people. Evil people seem rare. At least I don't run across them that often. Usually if someone appears to be evil it might be that they are mentally ill.I don't care what religion you belong to, or if you have no religion most people are good not evil. Born bad is a wacky idea.

If you define evil as people who have absolutely no regard for human life or suffering, who harm others solely because they can (or derive pleasure from it), people who enforce their will upon others through brute force and who kill and maim without compunction.....then I agree, there are more "good" people than evil. But I wouldn't call evil "rare", not by a long shot.

Originally posted by souverein
I feel sorry for you to feel that way. I don't think we are an evil race. We make mistakes and we even may ruin our world, but that has little to do with evilness, but rather with ignorant and contra productive behaviour.
Yes we do stupid things when our ego becomes to dominant. But that is very natural, we see that all around in nature. A tree tries to o ...[text shortened]... tent that it kills the neighbouring plants by lack of food and light. Would you call that evil?

You don't think a race that does all the nasty things we do to each other is evil.
Okay we don't share the same view of evil, or good for that matter.
Kelly

Originally posted by souverein
I feel sorry for you to feel that way. I don't think we are an evil race. We make mistakes and we even may ruin our world, but that has little to do with evilness, but rather with ignorant and contra productive behaviour.
Yes we do stupid things when our ego becomes to dominant. But that is very natural, we see that all around in nature. A tree tries to o ...[text shortened]... tent that it kills the neighbouring plants by lack of food and light. Would you call that evil?

I think a genral christian on this forum would say that that tree analogy is terrible and or irrelevant.
I however like it very much, thanks souverein.

Lookimg to join a clan?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't think a race that does all the nasty things we do to each other is evil.
Okay we don't share the same view of evil, or good for that matter.
Kelly

It's too much effort/energy directed in the wrong place. Look, be cautious at all times, dont get me wrong, but the charge of "evil" agianst an individual hardly ever comes up. In world news (which beats up stories), I must've come across 3 or 4 people that were condsidered by a significant majority of the populace to be considered truly evil. I'm 36 and I realize that even just back in the fifties attitudes were much different.
The advent of psycologicical conselling and psychotherapy has dismissed much of what used to be considered "evil" as a sickness, and with godd results, too.

This matter delves into the very hearts of individuals, and I must admit, if my daughter were raped, it would be hard for me to not think of her attacker as "evil".
But emotions aside, I give people til about 35-40.
If they still act like jerks and consistently abuse their children and spouses , and I knew the facts FIRST HAND, i reckon by that age, its time to step in and belt the guy a couple back.
But even in that example, I would be hard pressed to label the bad husband as "evil"

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't think a race that does all the nasty things we do to each other is evil.
Okay we don't share the same view of evil, or good for that matter.
Kelly

Your view is very misanthropic. Do you feel the same towards animals?
And yes we do nasty things to each other. You call that evil and look for redemption. I call that ignorance and look for greater awareness. Hope we can meet somewhere.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I think a genral christian on this forum would say that that tree analogy is terrible and or irrelevant.
I however like it very much, thanks souverein.

Lookimg to join a clan?

Imagine that trees have a kind of self awareness (some people believe they have). Would they feel evil because they kill so many seedlings and concurrents? Would they look for a redemption?

Thanks for your invitations. Maybe in future. For now I stick to my own clan

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It's too much effort/energy directed in the wrong place. Look, be cautious at all times, dont get me wrong, but the charge of "evil" agianst an individual hardly ever comes up. In world news (which beats up stories), I must've come across 3 or 4 people that were condsidered by a significant majority of the populace to be considered truly evil. I'm 36 an ...[text shortened]...
But even in that example, I would be hard pressed to label the bad husband as "evil"

The thing about our news stories and the word evil is we are judging ourselves by
ourselves. The fact that we are always seeing about all the deaths we cause, all the
time we cause starvation, all the times the powerful abuses the weak should tell us
that we are the problem, instead we blame everything but us, we make excuses
for those that do those things to suggest that was that reason why they behaved
the way they did and so on.
Kelly

Originally posted by souverein
Your view is very misanthropic. Do you feel the same towards animals?
And yes we do nasty things to each other. You call that evil and look for redemption. I call that ignorance and look for greater awareness. Hope we can meet somewhere.

I have said animals behave according to their nature, a lion will kill a zebra, it is
what lions do. People as you look at the news do quite a few things, the trick we
tend to play on ourselves is say, not us we are not that bad.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have said animals behave according to their nature, a lion will kill a zebra, it is
what lions do. People as you look at the news do quite a few things, the trick we
tend to play on ourselves is say, not us we are not that bad.
Kelly

Yes, but also animals can do damage to their own race and surrounding when their habitat gets out of balance.
When I look at the news I realize how bewildering complex our world has become. Let us reflect with compassion on that in stead of calling it evil.

Originally posted by souverein
Yes, but also animals can do damage to their own race and surrounding when their habitat gets out of balance.
When I look at the news I realize how bewildering complex our world has become. Let us reflect with compassion on that in stead of calling it evil.

Reflect with compassion? Really!? People are always sticking some label upon an
evil act, "they were far right wing", "they were far left wing", "they grew up poor",
"they grew up spoiled" it is always something. Truth is it is people, acting just like
people do and so on. The only reflection you should dwell on is, is it human nature
to do "evil" things? Seeing some good does not at all void out the evil, because we
are able to do some good only hightlights when we do bad, we know better.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]Reflect with compassion? Really!? People are always sticking some label upon an
evil act, "they were far right wing", "they were far left wing", "they grew up poor",
"they grew up spoiled"

I meant compassion without labeling.

Originally posted by buckky
It appears to me the fast majority of people are decent good people. Evil people seem rare. At least I don't run across them that often. Usually if someone appears to be evil it might be that they are mentally ill.I don't care what religion you belong to, or if you have no religion most people are good not evil. Born bad is a wacky idea.

I think there are three types of people: good, ignorant, and the very rare sociopaths. I'm not sure I would agree that people are evil, I think that to do some of the truly horrific things peole do, they must be mentally ill somehow.