11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI don’t think this scripture is directly about hope, it is directly about worrying about ones self, ones own worldly issues rather than having concern for the Lord’s plans for you and indeed for other people.
When you have no hope all you can focus on is today. If you do have hope you can believe that everything will work together for the good (in the future) for those that love God.
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterAn interesting perspective, but I am still minded of Paul telling us that genuine salvation 'inevitably' results in a life of good works. 'Inevitably' is a powerful word to me and I struggle to see how a Christian could not do the inevitable and still be among the saved. - Say for example it was inevitable that after eating a peanut, Stephen would go into anaphylactic shock. - Then say we met Stephen happy and contented. Could we not reasonably conclude that Stephen hadn't eaten a peanut? - For a Christian, the word of God is their peanut, good works their inevitable anaphylactic shock.
This has always been an interesting one for me personally. I used to worry a lot, still do a bit at times, but less so nowadays. However if I am honest that is more to do with the way I have managed my finances over time and the time of life I am in, rather than me leaning on and trusting in God.
This principle in play here is conjoined with the no ...[text shortened]... ay mean they are being sinful because they are inwardly focused and “worrying” about themselves.
'They profess to know God but with their deeds, they deny him, since they are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.'
Titus 1:16
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @ragwortYes, could well be. However, I wonder whether it's a bit of a 'Just Be Passive' message [...and leave the worrying to the Roman Empire's mechanisms and/or your church leaders, as it were] that was slipped in there just as corporate Christianity was positioning itself to coexist with political entities.
Isn't this just about promoting good psychological health rather than precluding long term planning or strategy? Similar to Buddhist (and now psychotherapy's) mindfulness of the present moment or the sentiments of the prayer of St Francis of Assisi?
I think it says don't worry rather than don't plan.
Cf: things like Matthew 22:21 and Romans 13:1 and John 18:36 [the sort of verse that the JWs cling to in order to justify their highly manicured political impotence] and others along with the whole 'virtue of docility' thing that has long been sloshing around in organized Christendom.
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI disagree. When you have no hope, concerted, proactive measures need to be planned and implemented in order to make tomorrow better, and the next day and so on. By contrast, Matthew 6:34 appears to give those who want to navel gaze self-pityingly ~ and maybe wait for "a miracle" ~ some 'holy' cover for their passivity and inertia.
When you have no hope all you can focus on is today. If you do have hope you can believe that everything will work together for the good (in the future) for those that love God. Things may not be good right now, but God can take a mess and turn it into a miracle, he can turn a tragedy into a triumph. I feel this is true in my own life.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI am not a supporter of not doing good works nor am an in supporter of the idea that a Christian can lose their salvation. The life eternal is just that, spiritual rebirth into eternal life cannot be reversed there is none or IMO insufficient scripture to support this. If one is born into a family one cannot be unborn from that family.
An interesting perspective, but I am still minded of Paul telling us that genuine salvation 'inevitably' results in a life of good works. 'Inevitably' is a powerful word to me and I struggle to see how a Christian could not do the inevitable and still be among the saved. - Say for example it was inevitable that after eating a peanut, Stephen would g ...[text shortened]... y deny him, since they are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.'
Titus 1:16
Nevertheless questions remain:
- how does someone know they are saved?
- what happens if they sin?
- what happens if they don’t do good works?
- what are good works, is there a list?
- are these works of equal credit if they are to be accumulated unto salvation?
- how many of which good works should l do?
I don’t have the answers but I cannot accept that you have to earn salvation, it is not supported in scripture. Once or if, one accepts this then there must be another answer to the works question.
There is the only one other solution I can think of and it will be controversial; those who do not live the life, do not have the life. They are NOT born again, they are NOT saved. I’m not sure about this but I can’t find another solution other than a sonhousian™ one.
This would mean that I am not saved because I don’t do good works, at least not many. Or do I though...maybe I’ve done enough. It’s impossible to know.
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterDon't worry. Just leave it to us busybodies!
Now I am worried.
Thanks!
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeLet me just lay down a marker here about my own perspective on this topic. My posts on page 1 are more about activism - and active citizenship - than about good works. I am more talking about people doing stuff, maybe for good money ~ not necessarily for charity, in order to plan ahead and create a better world. I think 'good works' is a separate thing from this.
An interesting perspective, but I am still minded of Paul telling us that genuine salvation 'inevitably' results in a life of good works. 'Inevitably' is a powerful word to me and I struggle to see how a Christian could not do the inevitable and still be among the saved.
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterI personally think you are missing the point Paul makes about assurance.
This has always been an interesting one for me personally. I used to worry a lot, still do a bit at times, but less so nowadays. However if I am honest that is more to do with the way I have managed my finances over time and the time of life I am in, rather than me leaning on and trusting in God.
This principle in play here is conjoined with the no ...[text shortened]... ay mean they are being sinful because they are inwardly focused and “worrying” about themselves.
Followers of Christ have assurance, IF they remain followers.
Assurance is dependent on that one critical criteria that they do not fall away.
As for not having to worry, Paul stated that he himself need to be careful about his actions lest he become a castaway. Christians need to be careful and not go about their life as if they can ignore the commandments of Christ and still enter the Kingdom of God.
The punishment for the sinful Christian appears to be more severe than the punishment for someone who never had an opportunity to learn about Christ.
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @rajk999I can go with this, if you can define “follower” in such a way as gives me “assurance” when I’m living my thing day to day, hour to hour.
I personally think you are missing the point Paul makes about assurance.
Followers of Christ have assurance, IF they remain followers.
Assurance is dependent on that one critical criteria that they do not fall away.
As for not having to worry, Paul stated that he himself need to be careful about his actions lest he become a castaway. Christians need t ...[text shortened]... more severe than the punishment for someone who never had an opportunity to learn about Christ.
Originally posted by @fmfI dont think that planning ahead is necessarily in conflict with not worrrying about tomorrow. They are two different things.
"Don’t worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
Is this really a good way for human beings to live their lives?
Someone who is interested in their future plans ahead.
Worrying or being overly concerned is a waste of ones time
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterI wouldn't be if I were you. Good works are also about 'intent.' (Do you have the inclination/desire to help others).
Now I am worried.
Thanks!
A simple test: a stranger falls over in the street. Is your instinctive impulse to go over and offer help?
From my interactions with you on this site, I am in no doubt that you would. Your desire is to do good works. You don't have to rush into burning buildings 3 times a day to prove it. - I don't think God is keeping a tally.
Originally posted by @divegeesterA follower
I can go with this, if you can define “follower” in such a way as gives me “assurance” when I’m living my thing day to day, hour to hour.
- has read the teachings of Christ
- believes that He exists
- believes that He will return
- makes a genuine effort to follow his teachings.
Christ has given these kinds of followers the assurance that nobody can take them away from him.
11 Feb 18
Originally posted by @rajk999I don’t have any issue with this.
A followers
- has read the teachings of Christ
- believes that He exists
- believes that He will return
- makes a genuine effort to follow his teachings.
Christ has given these kinds of followers the assurance that nobody can take them away from him.