Does anyone feel that Sikhs are in obloquy?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am not near as good at OTB chess as I am here. But on the 4th of July
Holiday weekend in 1982 I went to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where the
World Open Chess Tournament was being held. I believe I walked away
with $4,500 in prize money. Have you ever won that much money
playing chess? I doubt if you have and I doubt if you have the right
to bear false witness against me.

Oh but he does have the right RJ. FMF is his own authority and can bear false witness against anyone he chooses. Especially if you're a man of faith.

Originally posted by josephw
Oh but he does have the right RJ. FMF is his own authority and can bear false witness against anyone he chooses. Especially if you're a man of faith.

Bear false witness?

Originally posted by FMF
"A lawsuit has been filed in California suing US comedian Jay Leno for what it calls "racist" comments on the Sikh shrine, the Golden Temple of Amritsar.

[...]

"Mr Dhillon filed the lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court on Tuesday, seeking unspecified damages. Leno's joke "clearly exposes plaintiff, other Sikhs and their religion to hatred, contempt, ridic ...[text shortened]... Mr Dhillon said in his petition."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-16714305

America is the law suit capital of the world and it does not surprise me that some pseudo Sikh has done this to rake in some money on the pretence of having been hurt by Leno,s joke.

It is common place for wife's, religions, the Irish, politicians etc to be the butt of many jokes.

It will be thrown out of court like it should be..............and the complainer should be charged with filing a false complaint.

If it was a Islamic mosque at the centre of the joke............Leno would have a big fatwa on his head and there would be rioting in many Islamic cities including the city of California as well - and there would be the burning of many flags.

Originally posted by Dasa
If it was a Islamic mosque at the centre of the joke............Leno would have a big fatwa on his head and there would be rioting in many Islamic cities including the city of California as well - and there would be the burning of many flags.

We can agree on this issue of rioting. Violence can never be an acceptable response to what another person says, although I would defend the right of people to burn a flag as a symbolic protest.

Originally posted by FMF
Bear false witness?

I was being facetious. I retract the entire post. I apologize for the accusation.

I'm sure I'll do it again.

Originally posted by Dasa
America is the law suit capital of the world and it does not surprise me that some pseudo Sikh has done this to rake in some money on the pretence of having been hurt by Leno,s joke.

It is common place for wife's, religions, the Irish, politicians etc to be the butt of many jokes.

It will be thrown out of court like it should be..............and the compl ...[text shortened]... ities including the city of California as well - and there would be the burning of many flags.

We need to revolt.

Originally posted by Dasa
It will be thrown out of court like it should be..............and the complainer should be charged with filing a false complaint.

No. I don't think the complainant should be charged if his or her complaint fails in court. I think that would most likely have the effect of inhibiting recourse to justice in other cases where the complaint's merits deserve to be heard.

Originally posted by FMF
Does anyone feel that Sikhs are in obloquy?

No, they're in India. 😕

Originally posted by FMF
No. I don't think the complainant should be charged if his or her complaint fails in court. I think that would most likely have the effect of inhibiting recourse to justice in other cases where the complaint's merits deserve to be heard.

So be it.

Originally posted by tomtom232
The exchange ran out of being ok when certain persons derailed the OP and instead attacked rv's opinion. It wasn't in violation of any rights but it was certainly hypocritical.

Many thanks for the support ! An absolute freedom of expression, is an ideal that has to be achieved by and in a Civil Society where every member of the society is mature and sensitive about the the sensitivities of others. What kind of freedom of expression is that which (an imaginary example) allows a person to announce in a public forum that people with mongol idiot children should keep those children locked up because their appearance/behaviour is shocking to the rest of the society. There was a famous painter called M.F.Hussein, a Muslim, in India, who died recently,in the UAE where he had exiled himself for fear that he will be attacked by a political party and come to physical harm if he stayed on in India.The reason for his fear was that he invited tremendous criticism and protests when he painted a picture of a certain Hindu goddess ( he gave a title to the picture so that there could be no misunderstanding ) in the nude. Now, of course, there was a lot of support to him as well, on the ground of the freedom of artistic expression. But there were threats that his exhibitions will be boycotted and later there was a bit of rowdyism including some protest rallies which threw stones at theaters which were exhibiting one of the films he had directed.The agitation petered out but Mr Hussein left Mumbai for good. The moot question is whether Mr.Hussein was right to exercise his freedom of expression to the extent of grossly hurting religious sentiments of followers of a religion to which he did not belong. Some asked whether he could take similar artistic liberties with Islam. My opinion was that he had gone overboard and this was a misuse of the freedom of expression.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Many thanks for the support ! An absolute freedom of expression, is an ideal that has to be achieved by and in a Civil Society where every member of the society is mature and sensitive about the the sensitivities of others. What kind of freedom of expression is that which (an imaginary example) allows a person to announce in a public forum that people wi ...[text shortened]... m. My opinion was that he had gone overboard and this was a misuse of the freedom of expression.

Have you ever lived in a totalitarian state, rvsakhadeo?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Many thanks for the support ! An absolute freedom of expression, is an ideal that has to be achieved by and in a Civil Society where every member of the society is mature and sensitive about the the sensitivities of others. What kind of freedom of expression is that which (an imaginary example) allows a person to announce in a public forum that people wi ...[text shortened]... m. My opinion was that he had gone overboard and this was a misuse of the freedom of expression.

I am not the sort to strongly attack anything here, but want to raise a question. You mention that an "An absolute freedom of expression, is an ideal that has to be achieved by and in a Civil Society where every member of the society is mature and sensitive about the the sensitivities of others."

Wouldn't such a "Civil Society where every member of the society is mature and sensitive about the the sensitivities of others" also be one in which people would be mature about their own sensitivities? Also, wouldn't they be expected to be sensitive to the sensitivities of those who have a strong allegiance to freedom of speech?

Originally posted by FMF
Have you ever lived in a totalitarian state, rvsakhadeo?

I was born in India in 1946 august and lived here all the time. India is a democracy and a free country. In 1975 march, Mrs. Gandhi, who was the prime minister, imposed " internal emergency " and declared all fundamental rights of the people to be suspended. This period of dictatorship lasted till march 1977, when people threw her party and herself out of power in the elections she had ordered. I voted against her party as I had always been a democrat and I have always cherished my freedom, including my freedom of expression . But I know that this freedom must not be misused to hurt others by my utterances. With Liberty,comes Responsibility. And I rest my case. No more interrogation from you please. Thanks.

Originally posted by JS357
I am not the sort to strongly attack anything here, but want to raise a question. You mention that an "An absolute freedom of expression, is an ideal that has to be achieved by and in a Civil Society where every member of the society is mature and sensitive about the the sensitivities of others."

Wouldn't such a "Civil Society where every member of the soc sensitive to the sensitivities of those who have a strong allegiance to freedom of speech?

Yes. People who cherish their own freedom must respect the freedom of others. But does this give one an absolute freedom to hurt others by one's utterances ? Should that society of free people then deny those people who have been hurt to seek redress as provided in the law ? Why there is a provision of the law of libel in such a society ? Certainly to see that the right of freedom of expression is not misused to hurt others. If the Sikhs have gone to court, why are they are being advised to make fun of Leno in return or to take Leno's talk as just a joke ?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I was born in India in 1946 august and lived here all the time. India is a democracy and a free country. In 1975 march, Mrs. Gandhi, who was the prime minister, imposed " internal emergency " and declared all fundamental rights of the people to be suspended. This period of dictatorship lasted till march 1977, when people threw her party and herself out of ...[text shortened]... berty,comes Responsibility. And I rest my case. No more interrogation from you please. Thanks.

Your advocacy for the undermining of freedom of expression and arbitrary restrictions of the right to free speech has no merit to my way of thinking. Your attitude to liberty is one that should be opposed robustly. "With Liberty,comes Responsibility" means little or nothing when the word "Responsibility" can be defined in terms of things so indistinct, so subjective and so 'catch-all' as "hurt feelings" and "sensitivities". Your particular vision of freedom of expression, in these terms, would be welcomed by proponents of an authoritarian state. The case you say you "rest" is not one about "Liberty" at all.