@divegeester saidGo ahead DG. Make your best case instead of continuing to pretend that you have one.
It works by you paying attention to questions and information given to you in this forum and in the bible. I asked you questions on the previous page which are pertinent to your particular brand of atheism and your pin-holed perspective on the bible.
This ought to be worth another chuckle.
17 Aug 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYes, none of us are perfect while perfection is required. It isn't that God has low standards, His are the highest, but His justification through Christ takes care of that, redeeming the flawed by the only perfect. We also shouldn't get a big head when God does use us, Balaam got rebuked by an ass, God can use anything. 🙂
I put forward David as an example of God favouring someone who was far from sinless. (I'm sure you're familiar with the whole Bathsheba debacle). This was the grounds for my claim that God favours people he likes or has a purpose for and 'overlooks sin.' - He uses imperfect vessels to carry out his work.
17 Aug 19
@thinkofone saidNo one is disputing anyone who sins is a slave to sin, or that Christ has set us free from sin. We are in agreement here! Where you have to justify your stance is when you proclaim we will no longer sin according to the passages you used. When we are walking in the Spirit we will not be walking after the flesh, this in this life not the next. You over stated something, and added to the Word you used.
It might help if you understand the context. If you have a reasonable answer to the questions, then post them here. Thus far, G75, KJ and SS have come up with bupkis:
G75: How does one cease to sin?
ToO: Jesus provided an overview here:
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31...“If you abide in ...[text shortened]... His disciples are made free from committing sin, but don't cease to sin? How does that work exactly?
Ephesians 2:1-3 English Standard Version (ESV)
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Galatians 5:15-17 English Standard Version (ESV)
But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Romans 8:3-5 English Standard Version (ESV)
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
17 Aug 19
1 edit
@kellyjay saidJesus defines a slave as everyone who commits sin.
No one is disputing anyone who sins is a slave to sin, or that Christ has set us free from sin. We are in agreement here! Where you have to justify your stance is when you proclaim we will no longer sin according to the passages you used. When we are walking in the Spirit we will not be walking after the flesh, this in this life not the next. You over stated something, and a ...[text shortened]... f the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
How can anyone reasonably both be a slave and be free from being a slave?
Keep in mind that those who commit sin remain a slave according to Jesus.
According to Jesus they remain a slave. They are not free from being a slave.
According to Jesus they are a slave. They are not free.
Actually think about it KJ. How can you not understand what Jesus is saying there?
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17 Aug 19
8 edits
Give it up undercover atheist ToO. Your argument was not good five years ago.
It is weak today. Five years from now it will still be feeble.
Jesus defines a slave as everyone who commits sin.
Same Gospel! Jesus prays that all His followers would be PERFECTED into one ... in John 17:23
Perfecting is a process.
Former slaves of sin as followers of Jesus are being PERFECTED.
How can anyone reasonably both be a slave and be free from being a slave?
Give up your clever word play stealth athiest.
Those slaves having become disciples of Jesus are in the process of being PERFECTED. As he prayed in John 17:23.
Keep in mind that those who commit sin remain a slave according to Jesus.
You said that not Christ. "is a slave of sin" is not will always be a slave of sin .
Same Gospel, Same mouth, Same Jesus as He walked the earth -
"I in them, and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even
as You have loved Me." (17:23)
Same Jesus, same earth that He is walking around on.
Stop your Humanist cherry picking.
According to Jesus they remain a slave.
According to Jesus, He asks the Father that all His own which the Father has given Him would be P-E-R-F-E-C-T-E-D .
That requires Time (of which God has a lot and controls).
That requires an ongoing process over the former born slaves [now] being freed in Jesus Christ's salvation.
Do you actually NEED Jesus to promote your philosophy ?
They are not free from being a slave.
They are free, I AM free, other Christians are free to partake of the PROCESS of being PERFECTED ... ongoing, moving forward until the climax of complete salvation in Revelation 21 and 22.
Same earth He is walking around on -
" Holy Father, keep them in Your name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are ... They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth ...See John 17 about the believers being PERFECTED.
And for their sake I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth."
Forget about your attempt to hijack the Bible for your "No Slaves Admitted" Humanist philosophy!
According to Jesus they are a slave. They are not free.
According the petition and prayer of the same Jesus walking around on the same earth - He asks the Father to PERFECT them, Sanctify them, Keep them, and eventually glorify them.
We Christians are in the process. You should repent of your concealed atheism and receive the Son of God as the Lord that you may be freed by His process.
Actually think about it KJ. How can you not understand what Jesus is saying there?
I understand that you hate that Jesus would today have followers.
I understand your teaching of "No one is a follower of Jesus. He has no disciples." It is a doctrine of demons that has obsessed you.
17 Aug 19
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@thinkofone saidHe doesn't remove from you the ability to make a choices either good or bad when you accept Jesus Christ as Lord. We are to turn our lives over the Lord, He tells us to deny ourselves taking up our cross daily and follow Him. You seem to be saying that wouldn't be the case, as if we could no longer sin by being someone who now follows the Lord.
Jesus defines a slave as everyone who commits sin.
How can anyone reasonably both be a slave and be free from being a slave?
Keep in mind that those who commit sin remain a slave according to Jesus.
According to Jesus they remain a slave. They are not free from being a slave.
According to Jesus they are a slave. They are not free.
Actually think about it KJ. How can you not understand what Jesus is saying there?
Following the Spirit within our lives we will not sin, but even that is conditional on our following the Spirit and not acting out a manner consistent with the old man, the flesh.
Galatians 5:16
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.
Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
Galatians 6:1
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
17 Aug 19
@sonship saidI understand your teaching of "No one is a follower of Jesus. He has no disciples."
Give it up undercover atheist ToO. Your argument was not good five years ago.
It is weak today. Five years from now it will still be feeble.
Jesus defines a slave as everyone who commits sin.
Same Gospel! Jesus prays that all His followers would be PERFECTED into one ... in John 17:23
Perfecting is a process.
Form ...[text shortened]... e is a follower of Jesus. He has no disciples." It is a doctrine of demons that has obsessed you.
This is a lie. I never wrote that. I never wrote anything like that. If you believe that I did, by all means post it. Otherwise admit that it is a lie.
@kellyjay saidAny chance that you'll actually address my post within the context of what we were discussing? If you have any integrity whatsoever, you will. If you remain true to form, you won't.
He doesn't remove from you the ability to make a choices either good or bad when you accept Jesus Christ as Lord. We are to turn our lives over the Lord, He tells us to deny ourselves taking up our cross daily and follow Him. You seem to be saying that wouldn't be the case, as if we could no longer sin by being someone who now follows the Lord.
Following the Spirit within ...[text shortened]... e Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
To help you out, you responded to the following. Do you need everything else laid out for you in painstaking detail as well?:
It might help if you understand the context. If you have a reasonable answer to the questions, then post them here. Thus far, G75, KJ and SS have come up with bupkis:
G75: How does one cease to sin?
ToO: Jesus provided an overview here:
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31...“If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
His true disciples abide in His word and the truth makes them free from committing sin.
G75: I agree with Kelly. That scripture says nothing 'about ceasing to sin.'
ToO: Jesus says that His true disciples are made free from committing sin. How does that "say nothing 'about ceasing to sin'"? His disciples are made free from committing sin, but don't cease to sin? How does that work exactly?
17 Aug 19
@ThinkOfOne
Are you aware the thread has a collective chuckle whenever you try and pull someone up on their integrity or for dodging a question?
You are way below Kelly in both regards. (Way, way below).
17 Aug 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe deceit and trolling continue. Once again, nothing new here.
@ThinkOfOne
Are you aware the thread has a collective chuckle whenever you try and pull someone up on their integrity or for dodging a question?
You are way below Kelly in both regards. (Way, way below).
GoaD started as a troll. He continues as a troll. See the following thread for an example of his early efforts.
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/john-858.164426
17 Aug 19
@thinkofone saidWell, if we're going down the repetition path, when Jesus said he was sent by God, was he?
The deceit and trolling continue. Once again, nothing new here.
GoaD started as a troll. He continues as a troll. See the following thread for an example of his early efforts.
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/john-858.164426
(Whenever you link to that earlier post, the thread collectively chuckles at your inability to understand sarcasm. And I say that as a neutral observer).
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17 Aug 19
1 edit
I understand your teaching of "No one is a follower of Jesus. He has no disciples."
This is a lie. I never wrote that. I never wrote anything like that. If you believe that I did, by all means post it. Otherwise admit that it is a lie.
What are your students suppose to think if you emphasize AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN year after year that only those who are sinless and never commit any sins are disciples of Jesus?
What do you think readers of this concept of yours are going to assume?
IE. Jesus has had no perfectly sinless disciples. Therefore Jesus has had no disciples. They are all slaves still.
If that is not the logical conclusion of your understanding of the Gospel of John, then what is ?
17 Aug 19
@sonship
I do challenge your previous claim sonship that ToO is an atheist.
Take for example the simple question, 'was Jesus sent by God?' Any Christian worth their salt would immediately reply 'yes, of course,' while any atheist worth their salt would immediately answer 'no of course not, God doesn't exist.'
ToO is completely incapable of answering this question. (Okay, if pushed into a corner he will claim he answered it once a long time ago in a planet far far away, which nobody, nobody, has any recollection of). I think it is therefore clearly evident he is neither a Christian or an atheist. (God alone knows what he is,.. if God exists at all).
17 Aug 19
@thinkofone saidI understand Him, it is your addition point to the actual words used that have nothing to do with the text where things fall apart.
Jesus defines a slave as everyone who commits sin.
How can anyone reasonably both be a slave and be free from being a slave?
Keep in mind that those who commit sin remain a slave according to Jesus.
According to Jesus they remain a slave. They are not free from being a slave.
According to Jesus they are a slave. They are not free.
Actually think about it KJ. How can you not understand what Jesus is saying there?
17 Aug 19
@sonship saidC'mon jaywill.
@ThinkOfOne
I understand your teaching of "No one is a follower of Jesus. He has no disciples."
This is a lie. I never wrote that. I never wrote anything like that. If you believe that I did, by all means post it. Otherwise admit that it is a lie.
What are your students suppose to think if you emphasize AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN year after year tha ...[text shortened]...
If that is not the logical conclusion of your understanding of the Gospel of John, then what is ?
Do you honestly believe that whatever "assumptions" people make about what you write are rightly called YOUR teaching?
For example if someone were to write:
I understand your teaching of "There are three Gods".
Would it be true that it's YOUR teaching? Or would it be a lie that it's YOUR teaching?
So once again: Either post where I taught that OR admit that it was a lie.