08 May 12
Originally posted by divegeesterGod desides who goes where when they are resurrected. Was Jesus a JW or the rest of his followers? Actually they were as what they taught was about Jehovah's Kingdom just as we do.
Another answer (to the question you obviously think you know the answer to) could be that as Adam was not a Jehovah's Witness and only Joehovah's Witnesses go to heaven, so he could not possibly be headed there?
08 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75I can but you are just moving the point as usual.
Well not all that die will go to heaven. In fact the vast majority of the dead will be resurrected right back here on earth where God intended us to be.
If you can find any scriptures that say the opposite, go ahead.
In your OP you are deriding that website for suggesting that Adam will go to Heaven and yet you provide no substantiation as to why he won't.
08 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75So you are agreeing with my post about Adam - and that only members of the JW organisation will be in Heaven?
God desides who goes where when they are resurrected. Was Jesus a JW or the rest of his followers? Actually they were as what they taught was about Jehovah's Kingdom just as we do.
08 May 12
Originally posted by galveston75I don't see that verse as saying sin is a hereditary disease. We all are accountable for our own sin and no one elses. We can be led into sin by the actions of others, but I don't see any thing in the Holy Bible that says we are born sinners. The Jews did not see it that way and determined an age of accountability.
Are you really serious? You are kidding, right? If you are serious then I've never met someone that has the Bible in front of them but yet is so blind to even the simplist truths that are in it.
Romans 5:12
American Standard Version (ASV)
12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto a ...[text shortened]... g to these bozos that post that stupid stuff and pray to God to teach you. "Read your Bible".
09 May 12
Originally posted by divegeesterNo silly man. The disobeying of God's command is what led to their deaths and we inherited sin so we all die because of it.....
Are you here correlating the physical eating of fruit of the tree in the Garden of Eden with physical dying? If so how did everyone who has died since the fall managed to eat of that tree?
Or are you saying that Adam's death was unique in the history of mankind in that he (and Eve) was the only person to eat from the tree?
09 May 12
2 edits
Originally posted by RJHindsGenesis 8:21
I don't see that verse as saying sin is a hereditary disease. We all are accountable for our own sin and no one elses. We can be led into sin by the actions of others, but I don't see any thing in the Holy Bible that says we are born sinners. The Jews did not see it that way and determined an age of accountability.
Good News Translation (GNT)
21 The odor of the sacrifice pleased the Lord, and he said to himself,
Never again will I put the earth under a curse because of what people do; I know that from the time they are young their thoughts are evil. Never again will I destroy all living beings, as I have done this time.
I've seen other versions say "from their birth their inclinations were evil".
So just maybe you've learned something today........
Besides if you did not inherite Adams sin, you would have been born perfect. I hate to brake that news to you but it is what it is.
09 May 12
Originally posted by galveston75Yes I'm "silly" because I don't agree with you, aren't I.
Well I think my points are clear. Maybe it's just you?
Your point isn't clear, other than you are claiming that Adam didn't go to Heaven for some reason. I disagree with with you on this, but to examine any potential doctrinal stance you need to provide more examples which can be examined within the wider perspective of Biblical scripture.
Can you extrapolate your claim about Adam's situation to a broader cross section of pre-attonement characters, Elijah, Elisha, Enoch, Moses are obvious examples?
09 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterBehold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
And in sin my mother conceived me.
(Psalm 51:5 NKJV)
The above is a more accurate translation of that verse. Even though David was asking God for forgiveness for his sin in the complete Psalm. In this verse he was not referring to his sin, but to his mothers sin that branded him illegitimate from birth. Note the following reference about david's mother, Nitzevet.
After three months, Nitzevet’s pregnancy became obvious. Incensed, her sons wished to kill their apparently adulterous mother and the “illegitimate” fetus that she carried. Nitzevet, for her part, would not embarrass her husband by revealing the truth of what had occurred. Like her ancestress Tamar, who was prepared to be burned alive rather than embarrass Judah, Nitzevet chose a vow of silence. And like Tamar, Nitzevet would be rewarded for her silence with a child of greatness who would be the forebear of Moshiach.
Unaware of the truth behind his wife’s pregnancy, but having compassion on her, Yishai ordered his sons not to touch her. “Do not kill her! Instead, let the child that will be born be treated as a lowly and despised servant. In this way everyone will realize that his status is questionable and, as an illegitimate child, he will not marry an Israelite.”
http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/280331/jewish/Nitzevet-Mother-of-David.htm
09 May 12
Originally posted by galveston75A man having evil thoughts from his youth does not mean he was born with evil thoughts. It should say the evil thoughts were from his birth if that was what is meant. The Jews set the age of accountability at 12 or 13 and that would be considered a youth. Did you learn something?
Genesis 8:21
Good News Translation (GNT)
21 The odor of the sacrifice pleased the Lord, and he said to himself,
Never again will I put the earth under a curse because of what people do; I know that from the time they are young their thoughts are evil. Never again will I destroy all living beings, as I have done this time.
I've seen oth ...[text shortened]... in, you would have been born perfect. I hate to brake that news to you but it is what it is.
09 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsI'm open to your thought process on this. Let's look at this logically (if that's possible with you).
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
(Psalm 51:5 NKJV)
The above is a more accurate translation of that verse. Even though David was asking God for forgiveness for his sin in the complete Psalm. In this verse he was not referring to his sin, but to his mothers sin that branded him illegitimate from birth. Note t http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/280331/jewish/Nitzevet-Mother-of-David.htm
You agree that sin and death entered the world through Adam.
Any sin is complete sin - "a little leaven leavens the whole"
Therefore if we are born without sin, it is possible to lead a life that is sinless.
If it is possible to lead a life that it sinless, it is possible that we don't need Christ.
If we don't need Christ and are without sin we will not taste death.
I must be reading you wrong...?
09 May 12
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterYes it is possible to live a life without sin and Yahshua the Messiah proved it by living a sinless life. However, death is an inheritance of all men because of the sin of Adam. Man alone can not remove the curse of death for all men by not sinning.
I'm open to your thought process on this. Let's look at this logically (if that's possible with you).
You agree that sin and death entered the world through Adam.
Any sin is complete sin - "a little leaven leavens the whole"
Therefore if we are born without sin, it is possible to lead a life that is sinless.
If it is possible to lead a life ed Christ and are without sin we will not taste death.
I must be reading you wrong...?
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
(1 Corinthians 15:20-23 NKJV)
Christ, being also the only begotten Son of God, could pay the penalty for all men's sins because of his dual nature as both man and God, representing an infinite sacrifice.