Originally posted by bbarrDoing so, however, would make the apparent illogical comment disappear and kill
You don't need a 'temporal logic' (whatever that means, exactly), in order to represent the logical structure of the two original claims. All you need to do is make explicit the equivocation between two different senses of the terms 'praying' and 'smoking'.
the 'humor' (if any) in the pair of statements.
It's sort of like that famous scene with Crocodile Dundee. In it, Dundee and his
love interest are being accosted by some youths, one of whom has a switchblade
(or something to that effect). When the youth with the blade demands their money,
Dundee simple laughs. When the love interest points out, 'But he has a knife,' Dundee
casually responds, 'That's not a knife. That's a knife,' while pulling out a huge
croc-gutting blade (about a foot in length).
Now, I can't picture Dr Scribbles standing up in the movie and saying, 'But wait! The
blade that the youth had was a knife! This movie sucks because it tells falsehoods.'
Dr Scribble clearly knows that puns, satire, and misrepresentation are part of humor in
the English language.
Ivanhoe's little story (far less clever than the Dundee encounter) however is an attempt
to equivocate not between forms of 'praying' and 'smoking' like in Colleti's example
with 'eating' or 'reading' (wherein the form of those particples implies a totally different
circumstance), but between emphases. That is, a person cannot be praying if s/he
is focused on smoking, but a person can be smoking if s/he is focused on praying.
For my part, I think the story is useless because I strive to pray at all times (as per St Paul).
There is no circumstance under which a devout person ought not to be able to pray.
That is, a person who is mindful (a term borrowed from Buddhism) will be fully conscious
of God's presence while smoking (which I don't do). I think that it is a waste of time to
get down on your knees and pray if that is the only time you do it -- as if kneeling were
the way to clue God into knowing 'Hey, s/he's talking to me, now.' A prayerful person should
always be praying -- asking God for guidance, strength, pardon, &c -- with every
thought, word, and action. Consequently, I think Ivanhoe's parable is neither particularly
powerful nor does it represent a particularly clever use of English for the sake of humor.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioHowever, that (unfunny) movie did suck because in reality Mick would've had to pull out a bigger gun as opposed to some hunting knife.
Now, I can't picture Dr Scribbles standing up in the movie and saying, 'But wait! The
blade that the youth had [b]was a knife! This movie sucks because it tells falsehoods.'[/b]
But I digress...
Originally posted by NemesioNemesio: "For my part, I think the story is useless because I strive to pray at all times "
Doing so, however, would make the apparent illogical comment disappear and kill
the 'humor' (if any) in the pair of statements.
It's sort of like that famous scene with Crocodile Dundee. In it, Dundee and his
love interest are bei ...[text shortened]... rticularly clever use of English for the sake of humor.
Nemesio
...... so that's what you're doing in your posts ......... 😕
...... glass of water for Sir Ivanhoe please ......
Originally posted by ivanhoeI said STRIVE Ivanhoe. I didn't say 'succeed.' Your behavior is a constant temptation
Nemesio: "For my part, I think the story is useless because I strive to pray at all times "
...... so that's what you're doing in your posts ......... 😕
...... glass of water for Sir Ivanhoe please ......
to become belligerent and violent, but I most often avoid such sin.
You on the other hand....
There is a Zen parable: two monks were observing a flag blowing in the wind. The first monk said: “It is the flag that is moving.” The second monk said: “No, it is the wind that is moving.” Just then, their roshi (Zen master) passed by and said: “It is your mind that is moving.”
Now this parable (koan) is aimed at breaking up everyday, dualistic ways of looking at things, to “bootstrap” one into a deeper, intuitive grasp of reality just in its whole and full “suchness” (tathata)—to “see directly,” without the curtains and corners of discursive thinking. And perhaps to get a good belly-laugh. However…*
The monks went back to the temple and related the story to their fellow monks. And they all began arguing, some trying to apply deductive logic to the affair; others asking one another how to prove that a mind is moving, which led to a lengthy discussion about the meaning of “mind;” some monks mounted a vigorous defense of the roshi’s statement, with others saying that is was all “spiritual” hogwash; others rejoined that it was a spiritual lesson, but that the point according to the Buddhist scriptures was…. etc., etc. Some said: “You know, I’ve heard this story before, but the way I heard it was….” All taking it very seriously, very literally—even those who thought it was a joke began to articulate theories of humor, and to critique the whole episode from that perspective.
Meanwhile, the roshi just sat there, shaking his head and laughing silently, having seen it all before…
*From this point on, I’m just making it up. 🙂
Originally posted by Nemesio
I said [b]STRIVE Ivanhoe. I didn't say 'succeed.' Your behavior is a constant temptation
to become belligerent and violent, but I most often avoid such sin.
You on the other hand....[/b]
You once or twice accused me of not being able to understand irony or humour .....
If you're angry with me you'd better send me a PM, but I cannot garantee you I won't be using irony to explain what is happening ....
Originally posted by ivanhoe
You once or twice accused me of not being able to understand irony or humour .....
This is true. I was working off of the assumption that, because
English is your second language, that you miss some of the subtle
puns and turns of phrase that might be apparant to a native speaker.
It was not meant as a slight, I assure you (as I recall, when I 'accused'
you of such a thing, I also provided an explanation of what I thought
was the humor in the situation).
I don't recall 'accusing' you of lacking a sense of humor (like I did
pcaspian).
If you're angry with me you'd better send me a PM, but I cannot garantee you I won't be using irony to explain what is happening ....
I don't know why you think I'd be angry at you, Ivanhoe. You haven't
expressed anything contemptible or vicious. I just thought your
opening post wasn't that insightful, that's all.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioNemesio: "I don't know why you think I'd be angry at you, Ivanhoe."
Originally posted by ivanhoe
[b]You once or twice accused me of not being able to understand irony or humour .....
This is true. I was working off of the assumption that, because
English is your second language, that you miss some of the subtle
puns and turns of phrase that might be apparant to a native speaker.
It was not meant as a sli ...[text shortened]... or vicious. I just thought your
opening post wasn't that insightful, that's all.
Nemesio[/b]
Then I guess everything is all right then ? No hard feelings ?
Originally posted by NemesioWell I thought the following you posted could point in a direction that tells us otherwise:
You are imagining tensions where there aren't any (at least on my part).
Nemesio
Nemesio: "I said STRIVE Ivanhoe. I didn't say 'succeed.' Your behavior is a constant temptation
to become belligerent and violent, but I most often avoid such sin.
You on the other hand.... "
But I'm glad to hear from your own mouth that I am imagining things:
Nemesio: "I don't know why you think I'd be angry at you, Ivanhoe. You haven't
expressed anything contemptible or vicious. I just thought your
opening post wasn't that insightful, that's all.
Nemesio: "You are imagining tensions where there aren't any (at least on my part)."
Everything is all right then. Great !
Originally posted by vistesd"*From this point on, I’m just making it up."
There is a Zen parable: two monks were observing a flag blowing in the wind. The first monk said: “It is the flag that is moving.” The second monk said: “No, it is the wind that is moving.” Just then, their roshi (Zen master) passed by and said: “It is your mind that is moving.”
Now this parable (koan) is aimed at breaking up everyday, duali ...[text shortened]... laughing silently, having seen it all before…
*From this point on, I’m just making it up. 🙂
Is this a Moses quote?