Christ and Paul Contradict ?

@sonship said
Ghost of a Duke, a confessed atheist, uses the word "We" here.

No, I didn't.

Once again you fail to differentiate between what I have written and the website you linked to yourself in your OP.

@sonship said

Can you trust Ghost of a Duke to be an honest conveyor of the intent of the Apostle Paul's heart ?

Can you trust a man who so readily follows false prophets?

@sonship said

• Paul Teaches In Original Sin But Jesus Contradicts.

I need an example.

Mark 10:13-14

Rom. 5:12-14

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

No, I didn't.

Once again you fail to differentiate between what I have written and the website you linked to yourself in your OP.

I took the examples, though you found them, as your thoughts as well.

So you want to distance yourself from your examples which you located and referred me to. But when you do that, you have the option of sending me off to argue with someone else. That is kind of deflecting.

So if you don't agree then you submitting the examples is like following a false prophet with whose falsehood you actually don't agree.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Can you trust a man who so readily follows false prophets?

I can do that too.
You follow an author of a website, using his examples as your own thoughts, with which when debunked you distance yourself.

Can you trust a man who with convenience, when it suits him, follows
https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/175-pauls-contradictions-of-jesus.html ?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

• Paul Teaches In Original Sin But Jesus Contradicts.

Examples provided by, . . . well, somebody.
.
Mark 10:13-14
And they brought little children to Him so that He might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them.

But Jesus, seeing it, was indignant and said to them, Allow the little children to come to Me. Do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.

Please explain how this established some basic contradiction to whatever you
propose "Original Sin" teaches. For one who pointed out that "rapture" and "trinity" are not written in the Bible, why don't you raise the point with the phrase "original sin" ? I can't find the phrase in the Bible either.

Rom. 5:12-14

Now we come to what I suppose you (or the other guy) uses to say Paul teaches a phrase called "Original Sin".

Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin, death; and thus death passed on to all men because all have sinned -

For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged to one's account when there is no law.

But death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of Him who was to come.


I don't see how what was spoken in Mark 10:13-14 makes that saying contradictory to Romans 5:12-14.

Jesus taught elsewhere that unless we become like little children, humbling ourselves, we could not enter the kingdom of the heavens.

"In that hour the disciples came to Jesus, saying, Who then is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?

And He called a little child to Him and stood him in their midst and said, Truly I say to you, Unless you turn and become like little children, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

He therefore who will humble himself like this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens." (Matthew 18:1-4)

You would have to explain how in this childlike humbling of oneself is a negation of something Paul taught in Romans 5:12-14.

Explain.

Actually, the humbling of oneself like a little child before God, reminds me of Paul's similar words:

"Brothers, do not be children in your understanding, but in malice be babes and in your understanding be full-grown" (1 Cor. 14:20)

In spite of one man bringing sin into the world there is a time for adult seekers of God to be like babes (little children).

But you can explain why you think Mark 10:13-14 directly contradicts Romans 5:12-14.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

No, I didn't.

Once again you fail to differentiate between what I have written and the website you linked to yourself in your OP.

I took the examples, though you found them, as your thoughts as well.

So you want to distance yourself from your examples which you located and referred me to. But when you do that, you have the o ...[text shortened]... itting the examples is like following a false prophet with whose falsehood you actually don't agree.

Did I write them? You jump on the writer for using the word 'we' and then apply it to me as though I have scuppered my atheism.

It's disingenuously ridiculous.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Can you trust a man who so readily follows false prophets?

I can do that too.
You follow an author of a website, using his examples as your own thoughts, with which when debunked you distance yourself.

Can you trust a man who with convenience, when it suits him, follows
https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/175-pauls-contradictions-of-jesus.html ?

I have not distanced myself in the slightest and you have failed miserably to resolve any of the contradictions. What I object to is you repeatedly reacting to the link as if I wrote it.

My view on the list is that some contradictions are much stronger than others.

@sonship said
Can you trust Ghost of a Duke to be an honest conveyor of the intent of the Apostle Paul's heart ? I wouldn't for a second after reading this list of his contrived contradictions, especially this "fake [bible] news" one.

Can you trust sonship to be an honest conveyor of the intent of Jesus's heart? I wouldn't for a second after reading sonship referring to the commandments as legalistic works salvation and encouraging Christians not to keep the commandments.

Apparently, according to sonship, Jesus said to just BELIEVE in the commandments, and not to bother to KEEP the commandments.

What Jesus did say is the man
who keeps the commandments is a wise man
who does not keep the commandments is a foolish man

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

My view on the list is that some contradictions are much stronger than others.

I think we got here like this:

On another thread you asked me concerning contradictions between Christ and Paul. You said in essence - Why so many?

I asked you to list your strongest two or three biggest contradictions between Christ and Paul His apostle.

You told me to find a list that you had made.
( Around the same time I also remembered that list )
Your telling me to go find it was pretty concurrent with me re-calling that I had seen such a list.

So I got the list which is from the link you indicate and started examining on a few. I had not meant to do this for so long.

Here we are now squabbling over whether that list really represents your list or your ideas. And after so long I still have no indication of the original request

YOUR TWO OR THREE BIGGEST SUPPOSED CONTRADICTIONS

After so long all I get is

My view on the list is that some contradictions are much stronger than others.

It sounds like you don't want to commit to two or three biggest scariest contradictions between Jesus and Paul. Do you want to leave your two strongest contradictions up to our imagination? Would you prefer to not commit to your two or three biggest ones?

To be fair, I recall that you did push back on my answer somewhere. That showed some committal I guess.

Your move Ghost.

Please indicate which in the list are your two or three biggest contradictions between Christ and Paul.

Or please elaborate on your own two or three that you have confidence in.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

My view on the list is that some contradictions are much stronger than others.

I think we got here like this:

On another thread you asked me concerning contradictions between Christ and Paul. You said in essence - Why so many?

I asked you to list your strongest two or three biggest contradictions between Christ and Paul His ...[text shortened]... be fair, I recall that you did push back on my answer somewhere. That showed some committal I guess.

Indeed. When You retrieved the list I endeavored to give you the strongest 3, one at a time. (Never expected you to go through every one). Instead, you indicated you would come back to some (the stronger contradictions) and proceeded to, heroically, address the weaker ones.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Would you now then specifically enumerate the two or three in that list that are your strongest examples. If I am off hiding from your biggies, which ones are they ?

I don't want to submit my opinion about that here. I want you to submit yours.
You asserted there are so many.

I have no shame and telling people that I need time to study some more.
And I said that I would answer the ones that I could.

I don't think I only addressed easy ones.

@sonship said
Your move Ghost.

Please indicate which in the list are your two or three biggest contradictions between Christ and Paul.

Or please elaborate on your own two or three that you have confidence in.

I ask you to go back to the first page of this thread with a clear and calm head. 'You' presented the full list and asked that I give my top 3. With my VERY FIRST post I obligingly give you:

Let's start with: Jesus Says Not To Eat Meat Sacrificed to Idols, But Paul Says It Is Ok.


After you take a stab at answering I then (on the same page) post:

Next up: Paul teaches we are eternally secure, but Jesus teaches insecurity to a sinning believer.


As you can clearly see, I was doing exactly as you requested and was giving you the strongest 3 contractions one at a time. Nowhere did I ask or expect you to go through the whole list. (Instead, you found refuge in addressing the weaker contractions and making out that I had unreasonably expected you to do so). In truth, I only got to put 2 contradictions to you and can't even remember now if you attempted to address the second.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Paul teaches we are eternally secure,

This is not true at all. Many Christian churches preach that. Paul and the Apostles preach no such doctrine. They instead continually warn Christians that a life of unrighteousness means no eternal life.

Security is for righteous Christians.