Celibacy

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
if the word of God is inspired, as it claims to be, if the teachings are healthful as they
claim to be, if there is anything we have learned after six thousand years at attempted
civilisation, its that independence from God results in misery, while adherence to Godly
principles results in blessing! Wisdom is proven righteous, by its works.

yes but there is no rule that god imposes on celibacy. either good or bad, so if a faith choses one over the other, god still loves them.
even divorce is mentioned but not remarrige this is for the faith to understand and if it agrees this is ok then how many times. and the one thing we all have learnt is we get things wrong even for the greatest of reasons.
some like my own faith/religion belive in taking bread/wine in memory of the sacrifice he gave, others do not belive this way.

Originally posted by Sake

I said, "One day we shall all know the truth."

Notice I said "we shall all" that does not mean that some of us do
not know the truth right now.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its my understanding that the Catholic Church decided what to put in the Holy Bible.

You understand wrong.

Originally posted by Conrau K
As I said earlier, there are married Catholic priests. Mandatory clerical celibacy is a matter of discipline; it is not doctrinal. Certainly no one is forbidden from marrying. For those priests who decide that the priesthood is no longer their vocation, they are permitted to leave the priesthood and marry.

What you say hear is ridiculous. A priest in the Roman Catholic Church
can not marry without punishment from the Roman Catholic Church. The
fact that he must leave the priesthood to get married in the Roman Catholic
Church is proof of that. You are being dishonest as Dasa would say and I
say he is correct.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What you say hear is ridiculous. A priest in the Roman Catholic Church
can not marry without punishment from the Roman Catholic Church. The
fact that he must leave the priesthood to get married in the Roman Catholic
Church is proof of that. You are being dishonest as Dasa would say and I
say he is correct.

There are married Roman Catholic priests.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Pope/story?id=677904

Originally posted by RJHinds
You understand wrong.

Educate me. Who did choose which books to put in the Bible and when?

Originally posted by RJHinds
What you say hear is ridiculous. A priest in the Roman Catholic Church
can not marry without punishment from the Roman Catholic Church. The
fact that he must leave the priesthood to get married in the Roman Catholic
Church is proof of that. You are being dishonest as Dasa would say and I
say he is correct.

sorry you are wrong... there are married priests in the roman faith, they married many anglican priests over the years moved from/to even before the introduction of women priests/bishops

Originally posted by RJHinds
What you say hear is ridiculous. A priest in the Roman Catholic Church
can not marry without punishment from the Roman Catholic Church. The
fact that he must leave the priesthood to get married in the Roman Catholic
Church is proof of that. You are being dishonest as Dasa would say and I
say he is correct.

Well, there are married priests. I know a few. There are several situations in which a married man may become a priest. I listed a few above. Of course, a celibate priest cannot marry unless he leaves the clerical state. I have not denied that.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Celibacy was introduced mid C11th by Pope Gregory VII (might have got the I's wrong). It was against popular opinion at the time (most Priests were married) and he asked lay people to boycott services held by married Priests. Some references on the Net say that this was to ensure the lands/assets of deceased Priests passed to the Vatican rather than to the Priest's family.

I cannot say when celibacy was exactly established. I do not know whether Pope Gregory's legislation here was just confirming or strengthening current clerical legislation. I need to research that further. As for the comment about property, I think that is false. First, the 'Vatican' did not really exist at the time. Certainly however there was a papacy and Roman curia. Second, I can't imagine the Roman curia taking possession of foreign property or its proceeds. If anything, it would have gone either to the governing archbishop or even the monarch. Third, and I think this is crucial, celibacy does not mean that a priest's property goes to the church. A priest may leave all his property to a relative. Many priests and bishops, for example, in 17th century France were rich nobles. One of the problems leading up to the French Revolution was that this wealth was not shared. Their property returned to their noble family.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Well, there are married priests. I know a few. There are several situations in which a married man may become a priest. I listed a few above. Of course, a celibate priest cannot marry unless he leaves the clerical state. I have not denied that.

That seems to be punishment to some priests and I agree with them.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That seems to be punishment to some priests and I agree with them.

Well, it's not really a punishment at all. Dispensation from clerical state would precede a marriage. If a priest wanted to marry, he himself would petition to be dispensed. It is not as if the priest wants to marry and then the Vatican expels him from the priesthood. There is nothing punitive about it. I guess if the priest sought a secular marriage, outside the church, that would warrant a dismissal from clerical state but, then again, that would not strictly be a valid marriage anyway. But, even then, punishment would not be the right word.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Celibacy was introduced mid C11th by Pope Gregory VII (might have got the I's wrong). It was against popular opinion at the time (most Priests were married) and he asked lay people to boycott services held by married Priests. Some references on the Net say that this was to ensure the lands/assets of deceased Priests passed to the Vatican rather than to ...[text shortened]... ution was that this wealth was not shared. Their property returned to their noble family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_(Catholic_Church)

"The earliest Christians were Jews and Jewish tradition has always deemed the married state as more spiritual than the celibate state."

"From its beginnings, the idea of clerical celibacy has been contested in canon courts, in theology, and in religious practices. Celibacy for Roman Catholic priests was not mandated under canon law for the universal church until the Second Lateran Council in 1139."

"The Council of Elvirain Spain(approximately 305-306) was the first council to call for clerical celibacy."

"Within a century of the Great Schism of 1054, the Churches of the East and West arrived at different disciplines as to abstaining from sexual contact during marriage. In the East, candidates for the Priesthood could be married with permission to have regular sexual relations with their wives, but were required to abstain before celebrating the Eucharist. An unmarried person, once ordained, could not marry. Additionally, the Christian East required that, before becoming a bishop, a priest separate from his wife (she was permitted to object), with her typically becoming a nun. In the East, more normally, bishops are chosen from those priests who are monks and are thus unmarried."

"In the West, the law of celibacy was universally required by the 11th century. This law mandated that, in order to become a candidate for ordination, a man could not be married. The law remains in effect in the West, although not for those who are Eastern Rite Catholic clergy, who remain under the ancient Eastern discipline of sexual abstinence before celebration of the Liturgy, as do Eastern Orthodox priests. The issue of mandatory celibacy continues to be debated, though successive popes have declared that the discipline will not change."

Originally posted by Conrau K
Well, it's not really a punishment at all. Dispensation from clerical state would precede a marriage. If a priest wanted to marry, he himself would petition to be dispensed. It is not as if the priest wants to marry and then the Vatican expels him from the priesthood. There is nothing punitive about it. I guess if the priest sought a secular marriage ...[text shortened]... ot strictly be a valid marriage anyway. But, even then, punishment would not be the right word.

What is the right word if not punishment?

Originally posted by RJHinds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_(Catholic_Church)

"The earliest Christians were Jews and Jewish tradition has always deemed the married state as more spiritual than the celibate state."

"From its beginnings, the idea of clerical celibacy has been contested in canon courts, in theology, and in religious practices. Celibacy for Roman Catholic pr e debated, though successive popes have declared that the discipline will not change."

This doesn't at all answer the question I had above. What seems clear is that preceding the 11th century, there was continual push for mandatory clerical celibacy. By the 7th century the episcopate was restricted to either the unmarried or those willing to forego their conjugal rights. It seems that, whenever clerical celibacy actually arose, clerical continence was expected. By the 4th century it was scandalous for a priest to live with his own wife. I suggest you read this source:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm

Clerical celibacy just seems the logical conclusion to clerical continence. Rather than require married men to forego their conjugal rights, and also expect this of their wives, the Western church simply required their candidates for priesthood to be unmarried. There does not seem to be any sinister, entrepeneurial agenda behind it.