23 May 05
Originally posted by frogstompMatt 25?? What are you talking about?
see here's the problem:
each time mathew 25 has been discussed in here "fundies" have challenged the word of the Kingdom with using Paul's writings.
It's a recurring theme , it's as if they have reified Paul into Christ.
Christ's own words speak for Christ. No Apostle's, Disciple's, Theologian's or anyone else ...[text shortened]... rride them.
Any other view is assuming Christ was incapable of conveying His message.
23 May 05
Originally posted by kirksey957Kirk: "Those passages tend to support two ideas: that one needs an interpreter and that individualism in interpretation may lead to unorthodoxy."
Those passages tend to support two ideas: that one needs an interpreter and that individualism in interpretation may lead to unorthodoxy.
If one uses Scripture to find some personal meaning, I have no qualms with that. There is a long tradition of people getting in trouble for following their conscience with regard to Scripture.
Peter does not speak of individualism.He speaks of something else.
Peter speaks of "destruction". Do you think this is the same as your "unorthodoxy" ?
24 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeFrom a Catholic perspective, of course, unorthodoxy/heterodoxy/heresy is destruction (or very close to it).
Kirk: "Those passages tend to support two ideas: that one needs an interpreter and that individualism in interpretation may lead to unorthodoxy."
Peter does not speak of individualism.He speaks of something else.
Peter speaks of "d ...[text shortened]... ction". Do you think this is the same as your "unorthodoxy" ?
Figures; Peter was, after all, the first Pope.
EDIT: I realise there is probably a gradual change in degree in unorthodoxy-heterodoxy-heresy.
24 May 05
Originally posted by LemonJelloIf someone had those thoughts as you say. Are they not bound by their interrpertation. If a person nevers open THE WORD OF GOD. And has no knowledge of JESUS CHRIST. He is then judged by the right and wrong in his life, as THE WORD OF GOD says. There are those that have this same understanding as well. They regret the fact that they opened and understood THE WORD OF GOD. They know that by their rejection of THE WORD OF GOD, they have a heavy price to pay.
[b]However you interrept Scripture, you are bound by that interreptation.
what if someone reads the bible and honestly interprets that it is all complete garbage and a waste of time?
then by your reasoning, they have to live by that interpretation. so they have to live as though the bible is complete garbage? is that what you were shooting for ...[text shortened]... pretty clever way around the fires of hell, huh? i knew i should not have opened that book...[/b]
24 May 05
2 edits
Originally posted by blindfaith101If someone had those thoughts as you say. Are they not bound by their interrpertation.
If someone had those thoughts as you say. Are they not bound by their interrpertation. If a person nevers open THE WORD OF GOD. And has no knowledge of JESUS CHRIST. He is then judged by the right and wrong in his life, as THE WORD OF ...[text shortened]... heir rejection of THE WORD OF GOD, they have a heavy price to pay.
what interpretation? the person i am thinking of has never read the bible and thus has no interpretation of its contents.
If a person nevers open THE WORD OF GOD. And has no knowledge of JESUS CHRIST. He is then judged by the right and wrong in his life, as THE WORD OF GOD says.
fair enough. does this mean, then, that this person, being that he is not aware of jesus and thus does not accept him as his personal savior, will go to hell for the even the tiniest infraction or sin? if so, then what you are saying is that a near-perfect person (good by any human standards -- far better than you or I in terms of sins committed) will be sentenced to eternal damnation only because he was never introduced to a book and had never heard the story of jesus (maybe his mommy and daddy didn't read to him at night when he was little). does that seem 'fair' to you?
There are those that have this same understanding as well. They regret the fact that they opened and understood THE WORD OF GOD. They know that by their rejection of THE WORD OF GOD, they have a heavy price to pay.
well, from what it sounds like, they would have paid the same price if they had never opened the book anyway (follows from what you posted above). but also, if they have rejected the word of god (as untrue), then they probably don't think they have any price to pay (because they think the bible is fallacious to begin with)
26 May 05
Originally posted by LemonJelloTHE WORD OF GOD clearly states itself very well. Those that reject THE WORD, GOD will reject them.
[b]If someone had those thoughts as you say. Are they not bound by their interrpertation.
what interpretation? the person i am thinking of has never read the bible and thus has no interpretation of its contents.
If a person nevers open THE WORD OF GOD. And has no knowledge of JESUS CHRIST. He is then judged by the right and wrong in his life ...[text shortened]... n't think they have any price to pay (because they think the bible is fallacious to begin with)
26 May 05
Originally posted by LemonJelloYou have brought up an interesting point. However I believe it is written (not sure exactly where, maybe someone can find it for me) that those who have not had an opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour will get a chance after death. This includes those who were born before Christ came.
[b]If a person nevers open THE WORD OF GOD. And has no knowledge of JESUS CHRIST. He is then judged by the right and wrong in his life, as THE WORD OF GOD says.
fair enough. does this mean, then, that this person, being that he is not aware of jesus and thus does not accept him as his personal savior, will go to hell for the even the tiniest infra ...[text shortened]... mmy and daddy didn't read to him at night when he was little). does that seem 'fair' to you?[/b]
26 May 05
Originally posted by bobbob1056thROMANS 2:12-16
You have brought up an interesting point. However I believe it is written (not sure exactly where, maybe someone can find it for me) that those who have not had an opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour will get a chance after death. This includes those who were born before Christ came.
26 May 05
Originally posted by ivanhoe
Kirk: "Those passages tend to support two ideas: that one needs an interpreter and that individualism in interpretation may lead to unorthodoxy."
Peter does not speak of individualism.He speaks of something else.
Peter speaks of "destruction". Do you think this is the same as your "unorthodoxy" ?
I meant this post, Kirk.
26 May 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat is it that y'all need from me? Can you not let a peaceful Christian go about his daily walk wit the Lord? Am I so damn indespensible that y'all's spiritual well-bein depends on me havin to impart my wisdom non-stop? I do not have the widsom of the magesterium or the Good Book. Please consult both.
Mmmmm, that may be the reason for all that peace and quiet here and there 😉
Howeva I find it so enouragin that everyone seems to be missin Nemesio and me, but couldn't give a damn about Darfius and Pcaspian. Where the hell they been?