Originally posted by gaychessplayer
"Sin" is a term borrowed from archery which means "to miss the mark." To sin is to deviate, or "miss the mark" from God's standard, which is to say, to deviate from holiness. Homosexuality is certainly a "victimless crime" in a civil-law context, but my relationship to the Holy One would be compromised by deviating from His standard of sexual holiness (which can only occur in heterosexual marriage).

Jesus' standard of sexual holiness was a two generation long state of chastity.

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
as a rational being I have to accept what it says, no matter what I think about it

if you are going to follow the teachings of the bible to the letter then i presume you adhere to all the rules and regulations laid down such as the many order of Leviticus?

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
I am often deeply agonized and depressed over the fact that homosexuality is a sin. I don't fully understand why it is a sin, unlike something like murder or theft, which involves the harming of another unwitting person, which I can understand being a sin.

I've never had what I would considered to be a well-thought-out Christian tell me tha ...[text shortened]... ed upon them in a sex act with another person.

Anyway, that's my long-winded answer.

I am deeply saddened that you have had to endure this life long struggle with your sexuality. I would suggest to you that life is short and god will love you unconditionally regardless. As a result, I would strongly recommend that you indulge your sexual desires.

While John 3:16 is an oft quoted condition of eternal life, please consider the following:

Love is patient, love is kind.
It does not envy.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
It is not self-seeking, nor easily angered.
It keeps no record of wrongdoing.
It does not delight in evil,
But rejoices in the truth.
It always protects, trusts, hopes, and preserves.
There is nothing love cannot face;
There is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things that last forever:
Faith, hope, and love;
But the greatest of them all is love.
-- 1 Corinthians 13:4-7


So, in a word, get out there and get it on.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Jesus' standard of sexual holiness was a two generation long state of chastity.

Surely Jesus punished the monkey from time to time? Plus, didn't he bend Mary Magdawhatsit over the edge of the well and stone her?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
In my opinion it was labelled a sin because the tribes needed every person they could get to survive! More warm bodies holding weapons, tools, etc.

Thaqt's crap, it would make more sense to have a certain percentage of the population of a homosexual orientation. These individuals would not be inclined to have children and could be focussed on dedicated tasks, such as protecting the tribe.

For example, the Sacred Band of Thebes in ancient Greece was just such an elite force of banded male pairs. They kicked a significant amount of non homosexual ass. Just because one is a homosexual, does not make one useless or cowardly.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Thaqt's crap, it would make more sense to have a certain percentage of the population of a homosexual orientation. These individuals would not be inclined to have children and could be focussed on dedicated tasks, such as protecting the tribe.

For example, the Sacred Band of Thebes in ancient Greece was just such an elite force of banded male pa ...[text shortened]... f non homosexual ass. Just because one is a homosexual, does not make one useless or cowardly.

What you're saying makes sense for a people with a high population and fertility, but remember this is for people who have escaped from slavery and dragged themselves across the desert for decades. They needed to maximise fertility to survive. That's my hypothesis anyway.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
What you're saying makes sense for a people with a high population and fertility, but remember this is for people who have escaped from slavery and dragged themselves across the desert for decades. They needed to maximise fertility to survive. That's my hypothesis anyway.

It could well be argued that homosexuality is a recesive genetic trait and, as such, it could hardly be expected to differentiate between times of plenty and those of poverty.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
In my opinion it was labelled a sin because the tribes needed every person they could get to survive! More warm bodies holding weapons, tools, etc.

most of the references to homosexuality in the bible are in the context of masters abusing slaves sexualy, or indulging in pagan rights.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
It could well be argued that homosexuality is a recesive genetic trait and, as such, it could hardly be expected to differentiate between times of plenty and those of poverty.

Go ahead, argue that position. I'd like to see your genetic family tree chart thing that tracks the gene and demonstrates it to be recessive.

I'm curious what the relevance of your genetic argument is to my cultural one.

Originally posted by Deep Thoughtless
if you are going to follow the teachings of the bible to the letter then i presume you adhere to all the rules and regulations laid down such as the many order of Leviticus?

People are no longer subject to the Levitical laws. In fact, to practice certain Levitical laws like animal sacrifices would actually be blasphemous, since Christ came to cleanse us of our sins.

The idea isn't to "folllow rules" so much as to try to do what is pleasing to God. If someone can give me Biblical evidence that engaging in homosexual activity is pleasing to God, I'd be happy to know about it.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
How does it make you feel when you hear other Christians say that being gay is sinful? Are they correct?

You asked the question DrS but you didn't state where you are on this debate.
So what is it that you beleive? If you were born gay would you go to the Exodus International and try to change your orientation?

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
People are no longer subject to the Levitical laws. In fact, to practice certain Levitical laws like animal sacrifices would actually be blasphemous, since Christ came to cleanse us of our sins.

The idea isn't to "folllow rules" so much as to try to do what is pleasing to God. If someone can give me Biblical evidence that engaging in homosexual activity is pleasing to God, I'd be happy to know about it.

I really admire your strength in doing what you feel is right. I don't know if it is right. There are many stories of people who behaved displeasingly to God in the Bible and he still blessed them. He knows we are human afterall.
I heard a man called John Paul Jackson speak last week and he mentioned a time that he met with the leader over some states (I forget which ones) of the witches and asked him how he became a witch. The man answered that he was a Christian had a powerful dream (John is a dream interpreter). He went to his pastor and told him about the dream, his pastor told him that dream was from the devil becasue God dosen't work like that anymore. So the man went looking for the devil becasue he thought he must be more powerful then God. John asked him what was in the dream and when he had described it John interpreted it, it was God calling him into leadership. But the man said it's too late.

My point is we are all faluable and everyone has to ask themselves what is right everytime.

Originally posted by yo its me
If you were born gay would you go to the Exodus International and try to change your orientation?

Why would he want to change his orientation? He's not a Christian.

Originally posted by Palynka
Why would he want to change his orientation? He's not a Christian.

Yes, sorry I ment if he were in his shoes.

Originally posted by yo its me
Yes, sorry I ment if he were in his shoes.

I don't want to be pedantic, but you're asking him what he would do if he didn't believe what he believes now. That isn't very meaningful. Do you see what I mean? If you ask him to suppose he believes something, then he has to say he would act accordingly.