19 Jun 11
Originally posted by divegeesterI go as usual with the words of Christ. I showed you masses of scripture which show that God is the Father and Christ is the Son. Christ never said he is God.
I have posted masses of scripture on this board for trinitarians and JWs to read and see that Jesus is God and there is one God. I'm not a preacher nor even a good Christian, but I know what I believe and exactly why I believe it.
Here's where I am now my friend: we all have choices based on revealed scripture; I choose to believe that God is ONE and ...[text shortened]...
Who is your Saviour? When you know the answer, forsake all others (names/images/doctrines)
Whatever passages you have misinterpreted to falsely conclude that Christ is God are based on the concept of 'oneness' which is used many times for different people. Are you also going to conclude that the disciples are also ONE being becuase they are 'one in Christ;? Is husband and wife one being also?
NO .. they are one in purpose and of one mind.
Your problem is that your loyalty lies with your traditional upbringing and not with the true doctrine of Christ.
19 Jun 11
Originally posted by Rajk999Good comment. Jesus had over 30+ years to make that statement, that he was in fact actually God but in some fleshly form, but not one mention of it and in fact none of his diciples ever thought he was God. They knew exactly who he was, the SON of God who God created and fully represented his Father just as a diplomate would.
I go as usual with the words of Christ. I showed you masses of scripture which show that God is the Father and Christ is the Son. Christ never said he is God.
Whatever passages you have misinterpreted to falsely conclude that Christ is God are based on the concept of 'oneness' which is used many times for different people. Are you also going to conclude ...[text shortened]... your loyalty lies with your traditional upbringing and not with the true doctrine of Christ.
And with the wisdom and knowledge that Jesus had, if his followers thought he was God at all, he would have explained it as being so or not. But that that thought of Jesus being God or a part of God never was raised by them.
And as your also stating here it is a belief that has been so ground into them even to the point of the church scaring them into honestly believeing that IF you don't accept the trinity doctrine, you'll lose out on salvation of any kind. Who is this church to be a judge of who does and doesn't gain life? Only Jesus is the acting Judge that his Father is allowing him to be that.
Unbelieveable to say the least that they think they have that right that only Jesus has.
19 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75The reason you do not know Jesus is that you rely the Jehovah's
Good comment. Jesus had over 30+ years to make that statement, that he was in fact actually God but in some fleshly form, but not one mention of it and in fact none of his diciples ever thought he was God. They knew exactly who he was, the SON of God who God created and fully represented his Father just as a diplomate would.
And with the wisdom and kno t.
Unbelieveable to say the least that they think they have that right that only Jesus has.
Witnesses Organization to tell you who He is. You should should
get rid of the New World Translation and get a good translation
like the New American Standard Bible and read and study it and
let the Holy Spirit teach you. The leadership of the Jehovah's
Witnesses do not know Jesus. You have learned a lot of good
things from them because they have done a lot of research but
they just don't know Jesus.
19 Jun 11
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't have a "problem" thanks. Telling me you think I have a problem doesn't endear me to your argument my friend.
I go as usual with the words of Christ. I showed you masses of scripture which show that God is the Father and Christ is the Son. Christ never said he is God.
Whatever passages you have misinterpreted to falsely conclude that Christ is God are based on the concept of 'oneness' which is used many times for different people. Are you also going to conclude ...[text shortened]... your loyalty lies with your traditional upbringing and not with the true doctrine of Christ.
Let's consider a few statements/questions that we may agree on:
How many God's are there? One?
How many Saviours are there? One?
What is the name of your Saviour?
I have a Saviour who is prophesied about all through the OT.
The person who is my Saviour is my God
There is only one Saviour
There is only one God
Everything else is either "mystery of God in Christ" or error.
19 Jun 11
Originally posted by KingDavid403Exactly!
Isa 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor,[b] Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀[/b]
There is one God revealed in many manifestations, our inability to rationalise those manifestations into one entity is irrelevant.
19 Jun 11
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterHere is another nice verse for you sonny ..
I don't have a "problem" thanks. Telling me you think I have a problem doesn't endear me to your argument my friend.
Let's consider a few statements/questions that we may agree on:
How many God's are there? One?
How many Saviours are there? One?
What is the name of your Saviour?
I have a Saviour who is prophesied about all through the O ...[text shortened]...
There is only one God
Everything else is either "mystery of God in Christ" or error.
1 John 4:9-15 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. ... And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Basically it says;
1. God sent his Son
2. John has seen that God the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour
3. Who confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him.
And thats the story throughout the NT. Christ said over and over that the Father sent him. Christ prayed to the Father over and over. Anyway .. I guess then, God does not dwell in you ! .. becuase .. You dont say that Jesus is the Son of God, you say that Jesus is God.
Now I have demonstrated where the Bible clearly states that you have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God... otherwise GOD IS NOT IN YOU. Please quote a passage which the Bible clearly states you have to believe that Jesus is God. .. if you can.
20 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by KingDavid403Yes Jesus is a God in relation to humans. His Father has GIVEN him the power and authority to do God like things. But Jesus is never been called or refered to as the "ALMIGHTY GOD".
Isa 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor,[b] Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀[/b]
The new government that his Father has set his son up to govern is upon his shoulders and God his Father has GIVEN him the authority to be King over. But never is Jesus said to be the " ALMIGHTY GOD" over all the univerese as his Father Jehovah ( YHWH ) is.
Jesus clearly said he does NOTHING on his own accord but only does these things by the blessing of his Father.
And again I know your new to this latest discussion but maybe you can answer as no one else has yet...Where is the Holy Spirit in this picture? He's never mentioned in this setting. Jesus refers to his Father and uses his name Jehovah ( YHWH ) many times. Why is the holy spirit never given a name?
20 Jun 11
Originally posted by RJHindsI got news for you my friend. If I knew nothing of the JW's or even the Bible there is no way on earth I'd believe any of that foolishness. A young kid that can read can see it's a joke.
The reason you do not know Jesus is that you rely the Jehovah's
Witnesses Organization to tell you who He is. You should should
get rid of the New World Translation and get a good translation
like the New American Standard Bible and read and study it and
let the Holy Spirit teach you. The leadership of the Jehovah's
Witnesses do not know Jesus. You h ...[text shortened]... d
things from them because they have done a lot of research but
they just don't know Jesus.
As I've said trinitarians might have a slim at best chance of making this stick if the clear and everyday words that we ALL use daily in our language such as Father/son/sitting beside his father/God is one god/ on and on and on, were not written in your OWN bible that the JW's did not write.
I think you and the other trinitarians just need to go ahead and re-write the whole bible to fit those needs you have because the ones being printed now by anyone sure don't fit it.
20 Jun 11
Originally posted by divegeesterAccording to mans philosophies maybe but not the Bibles. Show me one scripture that said God manifest himself in many and mysterious ways?
Exactly!
There is one God revealed in many manifestations, our inability to rationalise those manifestations into one entity is irrelevant.
20 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Where is the Holy Spirit in this picture? He's never mentioned in this setting. Jesus refers to his Father and uses his name Jehovah ( YHWH ) many times. Why is the holy spirit never given a name?
Yes Jesus is a God in relation to humans. His Father has GIVEN him the power and authority to do God like things. But Jesus is never been called or refered to as the "ALMIGHTY GOD".
The new government that his Father has set his son up to govern is upon his shoulders and God his Father has GIVEN him the authority to be King over. But never is Jesus sai r and uses his name Jehovah ( YHWH ) many times. Why is the holy spirit never given a name?
Jhn 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
This is where the trinitarian doctrine believes The Holy Spirit is the third part of the God head. To I Gods Holy spirit is God Himself. God is spirit.
But this really is a futile debate. It's been going on now for the six years I've been a member of this CHESS site. No one has changed their mind yet.
And as you have agreed upon already salvation is the Lords to decide. I don't think any sect or doctrine or belief has it right down to the t.
Just trust in Jesus and follow Him and give your heart to Him and you will be saved.
20 Jun 11
Originally posted by KingDavid403I do totally trust in Jesus and what he has done and will do. But the Bible is also very specific in warning us to worship with truth. We cannot water that down and just accept even little untruths that do not agree with the Bible. If we allow those untruths to be a part of our worship than where do we draw the line doing that?
[b]Where is the Holy Spirit in this picture? He's never mentioned in this setting. Jesus refers to his Father and uses his name Jehovah ( YHWH ) many times. Why is the holy spirit never given a name?
Jhn 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all th ...[text shortened]... t.
Just trust in Jesus and follow Him and give your heart to Him and you will be saved.[/b]
20 Jun 11
Originally posted by galveston75The Truth shall set you free. HalleluYah.
I do totally trust in Jesus and what he has done and will do. But the Bible is also very specific in warning us to worship with truth. We cannot water that down and just accept even little untruths that do not agree with the Bible. If we allow those untruths to be a part of our worship than where do we draw the line doing that?
20 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsYes it has. I know that not believeing in a pagan belief such as the trinity does not decide my future life and I don't have to live in fear of a church that says I will die if I don't follow their man made doctrine.
The Truth shall set you free. HalleluYah.
Jesus said no burdens will be upon us other then to love your neighbor and follow his commands.
Where may I ask did Jesus say we had to follow a paganistic trinity concept????????????? Book, chapter and verse please??????????