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@divegeester
Being stone BORED with a question is not me disliking it.
It is me wondering why you don't grow up.
I am going to open up a thread on all your scariest questions (according to your hope).
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03 Feb 22
@sonship saidYou might claim to be bored sonship but it’s a simple question which goes right to the heart of a disagreement with your own church doctrine.
@divegeester
Being stone BORED with a question is not me disliking it.
It is me wondering why you don't grow up.
I am going to open up a thread on all your scariest questions (according to your hope).
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03 Feb 22
@sonship saidWhy not just answer the question here?
@divegeester
I going to open up a thread on all your scariest questions.
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03 Feb 22
@josephw saidHow are we to understand eternal punishment, if not divine torture?
The "torturer God ideology" is your opinion. It's not even an ideology based in reality, nor can it be supported by any known truth or facts.
It's just yours and others attempt to malign the God of the Bible and mischaracterize the beliefs of Christians. Reprehensible.
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(Matthew 25:46 ESV)
What is be achieved by a God enacting eternal punishment? In what way is that proportionate?
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What is be achieved by a God enacting eternal punishment? In what way is that proportionate?
I think you should remember over the years me giving reply to this line of thought.
Probably the most significant thing about this problem is that I said eternal perdition is not remedial. It is vengence.
Much remedial discipline, remedial or corrective dealing of God with a view education, adjustment, perfecting or changing and attitude takes place in the Bible.
The point BEYOND all correction is retribution. That is not corrective any longer. That is vengence as far as I can see.
Mnay other things I wrote in response to this thought. I think this is the most direct. Eternal punishment is not educational to the one pusnished for his improvement. It is retribution and divine vengence.
One place to cause this kind of thinking to me is in First Thess. 1:8,9
"Rendering vengence to those who do not know God and tot those who do not obey the gospel of Christ. They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction dferom the preswence of the Lord and from the glory of His strength when He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marvfeled at in all those who have believed . . . "
YOUR JOB as an accusatory atheist is now to twist the rest of the BIble into a slander that God is only vengeful, never patient, never corrective, never merciful, only egotistical, demanding our groveling in terror, never working to perfect but only petty to inflict His wrath on all who are not synchaphants.
So get busy because I already know what you are going to counter with.
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03 Feb 22
What is be achieved by a God enacting eternal punishment? In what way is that proportionate?
The other thing which I know I have said to this is -
Probably the ability to stop blaspheming, stop sinning, stop cursing God, stop rejecting all His is DOES NOT TERMINATE with one's death.
Probably, for eternity God will let the punished know what He feels about thier continual rebellion.
I would not be over dogmatic about it. But I think the rebel only continues his sinning crimes with continual response from God.
Worst than that, it could be that they become more and more like Satan himself. Like a black hole getting tighter, darker, harder, caving in on itself.
But I don't know this for certain.
I know that the saved are to become more and more in the image of the Firstborn Son of God. If so maybe the lost become more and more like their leader - Satan.
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I would suggest that anyone totally appalled at the thoughts I expressed above take time to reflect on this -
Exactly WHO . . . was it who died on that cross on Calvary?
The Bible says this was GOD as a man laying His life down for YOU and I.
The Bible says this was Christ the Son of God becoming a curse on us to save us.
"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse on our behalf; because it is written, Cursed is everyone haning on a tree." (Gal. 3:13)
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03 Feb 22
@sonship saidThat's ok sonship, I was asking Joseph.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
What is be achieved by a God enacting eternal punishment? In what way is that proportionate?
I think you should remember over the years me giving reply to this line of thought.
Probably the most significant thing about this problem is that I said eternal perdition is not remedial. It is vengence.
Much remedial dis ...[text shortened]... synchaphants.
So get busy because I already know what you are going to counter with.
03 Feb 22
@divegeester said"Church doctrine"?
You might claim to be bored sonship but it’s a simple question which goes right to the heart of a disagreement with your own church doctrine.
That straight out of Rajk's playbook for destroying and tearing down that which God is building up.
03 Feb 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYour first question: eternal punishment means justice, not torture.
How are we to understand eternal punishment, if not divine torture?
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
(Matthew 25:46 ESV)
What is be achieved by a God enacting eternal punishment? In what way is that proportionate?
Have you ever been tortured? Have you ever seen anyone being tortured in hell?
Separation from God, based on ones own choice, will be eternal.
You second question is more interesting. How is it proportionate that I should have eternal life when I don't deserve it?
03 Feb 22
1 edit
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI appreciate the question. If I didn't fully satisfy your question, ask again.
That's ok sonship, I was asking Joseph.
I just noticed I didn't answer you second question but the third.
"What is be achieved by a God enacting eternal punishment?"
I don't know. Exactly. I think it involves the idea that as humans created in the image of God, our spirit and soul are eternal.
And sin cannot exist in the presence of God, so, as the Bible says, the lost die in their sin because they rejected the redemption that is in Christ, therefore they will exist eternally separated from the life of God in "outer darkness".
It is as horrifying a thought for me as it is for you. The scriptures are clear. Jesus is clear.
But if it's any consolation, I don't think the "torment" is relative to physical discomfort.
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03 Feb 22
@josephw saidAt least he hasn’t posted today about Jesus Christ watching (presumably with pleasure) people being burned alive for eternity.
"Church doctrine"?
That straight out of Rajk's playbook for destroying and tearing down that which God is building up.
But the day’s still young and he’s got plenty of more time to trash the Name of Jesus.
@pb1022 saidRight, but I think he spent his trashing energy on vilifying the doctrines of God's Word in the other thread this morning.
At least he hasn’t posted today about Jesus Christ watching (presumably with pleasure) people being burned alive for eternity.
But the day’s still young and he’s got plenty of more time to trash the Name of Jesus.
I find it appalling that a professing Christian can even dare to speak of God and Jesus Christ in such a vilifying way as divegeester does in his disdainful attempt to level that charge against a brother.
I wouldn't talk that way to a Muslim about his god, or a Hindu!
How can divegeester stomach even say those words? Publicly? To those he knows full well are eternally grateful for the selfless sacrifice of our God and savior the Lord Jesus Christ on our behalf?
Boggles the mind.