Spirituality
28 Apr 09
03 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieflattery will get you everywhere.
We could talk about some interesting aspects of Dynamism over Scheveningen! YES! we could dispense with it altogether and play the hyper accelerated dragon 1.e4 c5, 2.Nf3 g6!!, 3. d4 Bg7!!
suffering succotash, the noble Barrister Scriabin is playing a most excellent game, i have dangled worms before him but so far he has not bitten! that old fish is certainly more wiley than the great Wile E Cayote himself! meep! meep! 😉
but I'm simply playing the percentages.
that is the very definition, to me, of sharp play.
the most interesting of all disciplines, for me, is risk assessment.
how we determine the level of risk, how we respond to a given level of risk, these are the central questions of my life.
I am convinced only that we live among a plethora of probabilities. Our task is to assess them, and respond as best we can.
03 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou cannot refute or even respond effectively to what I say by citing what Groucho Marx had to say.
'Organized religion is in the business of making slaves of the minds of its followers', now where have i heard that before, mmmmm, wasn't it that German dude Marx who neglected his family as he wrote his treatise up in the library, yes, one form of slavery for another, who can disagree!
I have already offered you my theory on why atrocities are p ...[text shortened]... quote, 'I love Christ, but I despise Christians because they do not live as Christ lived.'
And he was not a German, I would remind you.
Now, if you can untangle this, you have then a clue as to the error into which you have fallen.
03 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou ignore the role of dogma, of religious doctrine, etc. people follow that.
'Organized religion is in the business of making slaves of the minds of its followers', now where have i heard that before, mmmmm, wasn't it that German dude Marx who neglected his family as he wrote his treatise up in the library, yes, one form of slavery for another, who can disagree!
I have already offered you my theory on why atrocities are p ...[text shortened]... quote, 'I love Christ, but I despise Christians because they do not live as Christ lived.'
blindly
04 May 09
Originally posted by Scriabinare you trying to assert, that if they followed their conscience, that religious indoctrination would be a factor, i think not my friend, not a chance!
you ignore the role of dogma, of religious doctrine, etc. people follow that.
blindly
infact as soon as the dogma hit their conscience, it would become like a meteorite entering the atmosphere, instantly burning up leaving nothing but a charred and unrecognizable effigy of a doctrine. those who blindly follow dogma are either unable to, have no experience of, or have the natural exercise of the human conscience suppressed by another malignant ideology! I really mean this Scriabin, the rest you can dispense with, but this is really close to my heart this idea.
04 May 09
Originally posted by Scriabinis Groucho Marx , Carls big brother?
you cannot refute or even respond effectively to what I say by citing what Groucho Marx had to say.
And he was not a German, I would remind you.
Now, if you can untangle this, you have then a clue as to the error into which you have fallen.
04 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieif you were a Catholic you'd understand better.
are you trying to assert, that if they followed their conscience, that religious indoctrination would be a factor, i think not my friend, not a chance!
infact as soon as the dogma hit their conscience, it would become like a meteorite entering the atmosphere, instantly burning up leaving nothing but a charred and unrecognizable effigy of a doctr ...[text shortened]... n this Scriabin, the rest you can dispense with, but this is really close to my heart this idea.
there are entire populations of religious people who blindly follow the dogma and doctrine of their faith.
People often fail to follow their conscience, if they even have one. They have their priests, their mullahs, their rabbis, and so they do as they are told, as it is written -- and do not question.
That may not be your way, but it is the way of far too many religions and religious people.
I hold with ethical conduct for its own sake -- not out of fear of punishment, or social disapproval or being sent somewhere unpleasant after I'm dead.
Most people are still not to be trusted to act properly, ethically, or responsibly, so they are brought under control using religion and the rule of law.
I think we need only the effective rule of law -- not religion. I think the religion aspects detracts from the development of conscience and ethical conduct -- for it is founded on myths and lies, and has no temporal authority.
It reduces further. Religion perpetuates ignorance. Law makes education, conscience and informed responsible conduct a necessity.
04 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobiehow can you play chess and be so dim?
is Groucho Marx , Carls big brother?
Groucho was not related to Karl -- but Groucho did describe you in a sort of prophetic statement:
"You've got the brain of a four-year-old boy, and I bet he was glad to get rid of it."
04 May 09
Originally posted by ScriabinHow does the Law make conscience? please!
if you were a Catholic you'd understand better.
there are entire populations of religious people who blindly follow the dogma and doctrine of their faith.
People often fail to follow their conscience, if they even have one. They have their priests, their mullahs, their rabbis, and so they do as they are told, as it is written -- and do not question.
...[text shortened]... uates ignorance. Law makes education, conscience and informed responsible conduct a necessity.
04 May 09
incentives, Robbie, incentives.
some people, true, are not deterred by negative incentives like imprisonment, etc.
and some people believe they can always avoid the consequences of their acts.
religion does nothing to fix those folks, either.
however, among intelligent people who actually want to do the right thing in life, law provides not only negative incentives in the form of punishment for doing the wrong thing, law also provides positive incentives in the form of tax law, and other statutory and regulatory measures that affect economic activity.
arguably, even the basis of the Bible was law -- certainly this is true of the Jewish Bible and its related works.
then, unfortunately in my opinion, we go off into fantasyland with the absurd idea of a divine human being -- a concept stolen from the Greeks (Hercules) and before you know it, we have exploitation of masses willing to believe that all their Earthly desires will be met after death so long as they accept, remain loyal, and keep those shekels coming into those self-appointed representatives of the one (three?) true God(s?)
BTW, how much do you think it cost to build any one of the great British Cathedrals, like Lincoln?
Ever seen the carvings in the Lincoln cathedral, Robbie?
A lot of them are pre-christian art representing a host of pagan gods and fantastic creatures, stories, and so forth -- nothing at all to do with Christianity. That part of the building is extremely old indeed.
I've cousins living there and was given a lot of interesting info when they took me around to see the place.
04 May 09
Originally posted by ScriabinActually my friend, these very ideas that you mention were an issue, way back in the first century for the Christians living in Rome, for they also, were called upon to pay taxes to the Caesars, However, as you are aware (by the way i would like to know to what extent the American governmental system is founded on the Roman model, you know senators, capital hill etc etc) the Caesars were fairly licentious, thus it provoked a crisis of conscience, 'wait a minute!', they thought,' ,'were paying taxes and those to whom we are paying are iniquitous rascals, licentious, debauched, incestuous, drunkards, gluttons, homos etc etc etc, the very things the scriptures condemn, should we be paying taxes to such'.
incentives, Robbie, incentives.
some people, true, are not deterred by negative incentives like imprisonment, etc.
and some people believe they can always avoid the consequences of their acts.
religion does nothing to fix those folks, either.
however, among intelligent people who actually want to do the right thing in life, law provides not only ...[text shortened]... living there and was given a lot of interesting info when they took me around to see the place.
Paul in his wisdom, was inspired to set the matter straight in the book of Romans chapter 13. after outlining the position that the Christians were meant to take, he gives the reason why, its important that we remain subjective to these authorities
There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your conscience. For that is why you are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. Render to all their dues, to him who calls for the tax, the tax; to him who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to him who calls for fear, such fear; to him who calls for honor, such honor. Romans 13:5-8.
what can we say about this? yes the wrath or punishment for any misdemeanors could be a deterrent, but a much stronger motivational force was the conscience! For Paul established that governmental agencies do much good, he himself had appealed to Caesar when accosted by an angry mob, thus by stating that the authorities stand in a relative position, to God, while not being absolute, they are due a measure of respect and honour, therefore, for the Christian, maintaining law in not simply based on negative incentives, but it becomes a matter of conscience. Thus rather amazingly, your own learning actually echoes that of the scriptures, with the exception of the fairy land bit.
I myself have a crisis of conscience with regard to these buildings that you mention, for while one must appreciate their architectural qualities and historicity, the opulence is repugnant and as far removed from Christ as you can get! just examples of persons trying to 'but their way into heaven'.
I dunno how much they cost my friend, a pretty penny to be sure!
05 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethe cathedrals, especially Lincoln, were symbols to intimidate -- built high on hills, made massive to impress.
Actually my friend, these very ideas that you mention were an issue, way back in the first century for the Christians living in Rome, for they also, were called upon to pay taxes to the Caesars, However, as you are aware (by the way i would like to know to what extent the American governmental system is founded on the Roman model, you know senators, ...[text shortened]... eir way into heaven'.
I dunno how much they cost my friend, a pretty penny to be sure!
religion in service to temporal authority
when that religion became inconvenient, why, Henry VIII had the solution to that one.
pls, pls look up the use of the words "subject" and "subjective" as you are giving me a headache with your malapropisms.
05 May 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasI'm surprised why you haven't aske the question in the Science Forum. I've waited to find your question because it is a scientific question and not a spiritual one. I give you my answer there, I promise.
I haven't commented at all if the Universe has a beginning or if it has not. If you would like to have an answer to that, then you have to give the answer at the Science Forum. This is the Spiritual Forum, and you want to bring Science in here? Why? Because I cannot give an answer in a spiritual way. Because it is not spiritual. It is science.
Scriabin gave a good answer, yes, but he forgot some details of importance.
I don't think you will, though, because as a christian fundamentalist you're not interested, or not capable to understand. You have your ideas because of religious reasons, and the scientific truth disturbes your religious views. But if your faith is strong enough, and you really are interested about the scientific question, then I meet you in the Science Forum.
05 May 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasis this addressed to me? if so, why should i have anything to fear? for i contend that science and the Bible are harmonious, therefore my faith can really only get stronger for the more science progresses, the more apparent it is, that the scriptures are scientifically sound, the above reference to the universe having a beginning is a good case. the only thing you and i have to fear, is non science, dogma and postulation proffering and masquerading itself as science!
I'm surprised why you haven't aske the question in the Science Forum. I've waited to find your question because it is a scientific question and not a spiritual one. I give you my answer there, I promise.
Scriabin gave a good answer, yes, but he forgot some details of importance.
I don't think you will, though, because as a christian fundamentalist y really are interested about the scientific question, then I meet you in the Science Forum.
05 May 09
Originally posted by Scriabinlook up the use of the words "subject" and "subjective" as you are giving me a headache with your malapropisms.
the cathedrals, especially Lincoln, were symbols to intimidate -- built high on hills, made massive to impress.
religion in service to temporal authority
when that religion became inconvenient, why, Henry VIII had the solution to that one.
pls, pls look up the use of the words "subject" and "subjective" as you are giving me a headache with your malapropisms.
Lol, in all cases of inaccuracy or misapplication i cite artistic license!🙂