Atheists in foxholes 2

I buried someone dear to me yesterday. Even through the fumbling of CPR and the paramedics coming, and the vinegary last moments of hope, once again ~ rather like Wilfred Owen's exposing "Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori" to be "the old lie" ~ I am here to report that "There are no atheists in foxholes" is not true.

@FMF

"There are no atheists in foxholes“

I had never of this saying before you used it last time and I still didn’t really get its connection to your use of it then. So this time I looked it up and I get the connection now and I have learned something new.

@divegeester said
I had never of this saying before you used it last time and I still didn’t really get its connection to your use of it then.

Atheists in foxholes 1 was, in part, aimed at the likes of sonship who believed, and asserted, that the likes of me actually DO believe in Jesus but that we are lying about it because we are "angry with Him because we don't want to be held responsible for our sins".

In line with this, on several occasions he cited the "There are no atheists in foxholes" dictum - which I think is a quite widely held presumptuous and egocentric belief among Christians. [I have never heard a Muslim or a Hindu say it.]

sonship [who, to be fair, is no longer here to argue his corner, but I don't think I have misrepresented his stance] believed that my agnosticism/ atheism was essentially a case of dishonest posturing, while I believe that his dictum was posturing for the consumption of the proverbial choir.

@fmf said
I buried someone dear to me yesterday. Even through the fumbling of CPR and the paramedics coming, and the vinegary last moments of hope, once again ~ rather like Wilfred Owen's exposing "Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori" to be "the old lie" ~ I am here to report that "There are no atheists in foxholes" is not true.

I'm very sorry your friend is gone. I would suggest however:

1. "There are no atheists in foxholes." was first attributed to William Thomas Cummings in a field sermon during the Battle of Bataan in 1942. Though a thought provoking and now famous quote, it has no factual connection to scripture.

2. I very much doubt either you or your friend spent much time in a foxhole, and even if you did you cannot know what the multitude of other people who did think. Therefore your (report) that there are no atheists in foxholes is not true, is rather weak.

@mchill said
Therefore your (report) that there are no atheists in foxholes is not true, is rather weak.

My report is that there ARE atheists in foxholes. Your understanding of the entire point I was making with my post is way, way worse than "rather weak". But thank you for your good wishes nevertheless.

@fmf said
My report is that there ARE atheists in foxholes. Your understanding of the entire point I was making with my post is way, way worse than "rather weak". But thank you for your good wishes nevertheless.

OK - Sorry if I misunderstood.

@mchill said
OK - Sorry if I misunderstood.

Even if you do it willfully, it is benign, I think. So, not to worry.

To laugh often and love much;
to win the respect of intelligent persons
and the affection of children;
to earn the approbation of honest critics
and to endure the betrayal of false friends;
to appreciate beauty;
to find the best in others;
to give of oneself;
to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child,
a garden patch or redeemed social condition;
to have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung with exultation;
to know that even one life has breathed easier because you have lived -
this is to have succeeded.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

@divegeester

TU from me, Dive. One my favorite, go-to, philosophers.

“We ask for long life, but ‘tis deep life, or grand moments, that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.”

Emerson

I think one of the elements of the grieving process is getting from the feeling of being cursed to the feeling of acknowledging that you have been blessed. It's what the 'platitude' about celebrating the life of someone who has passed away actually means in practical terms. But its wisdom [because that's what it is; it isn't a platitude] is almost impossible to compute when you are still at the "feeling of being cursed" stage.

@FMF
sorry for yer loss
i am glad you were there

@fmf said
I buried someone dear to me yesterday. Even through the fumbling of CPR and the paramedics coming, and the vinegary last moments of hope, once again ~ rather like Wilfred Owen's exposing "Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori" to be "the old lie" ~ I am here to report that "There are no atheists in foxholes" is not true.

Hi FMF. Nice to see you are still around. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

My dad passed 4 years ago. Both he and mom were Unitarians - she a theist, he an atheist.

They had a great last day together. Spent the morning gardening, then took a favorite walk in the park in the afternoon. They had potluck dinner at their church of 43 years, and a movie afterwards.

The next morning, he was gone.

It was a shock for us all, but in the end, he went on his own terms - in his own house, his own way. No doctors. No rest homes. Exactly the way he would have wished.

Anyway, whatever the foxhole, being at peace with one day leaving is something I would wish for your friend, and you.

Take care, B

@spruce112358 said
Hi FMF. Nice to see you are still around. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

My dad passed 4 years ago. Both he and mom were Unitarians - she a theist, he an atheist.

They had a great last day together. Spent the morning gardening, then took a favorite walk in the park in the afternoon. They had potluck dinner at their church of 43 years, and a movie afterwards.
...[text shortened]... g at peace with one day leaving is something I would wish for your friend, and you.

Take care, B

Good to see you back after 12 years.

@divegeester said
Good to see you back after 12 years.

Don't be silly, he never went anywhere. 😛 🙂

-VR

@very-rusty said
Don't be silly, he never went anywhere. 😛 🙂

-VR

I didn’t say he did go anywhere.