Atheist morals

Originally posted by @fmf
We have discussed it before. Societies impose laws not morals. Go back and look at when we talked about it. I feel no need to repeat myself.

So you agree that a society can impose any law it wants to upon its people?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So you agree that a society can impose any law it wants to upon its people?

Read some history and see what laws governments have passed. If a regime has the power to enforce its will and coerce its people, and remain in power, it can impose whatever laws and punishments it sees fit, with or without the consent of its people.

Originally posted by @fmf
Which of your moral principles do you think should be turned into laws by society and thus made obligatory for me and other non-Christians ?

dj2becker, are you going to answer this question?

Originally posted by @fmf
Read some history and see what laws governments have passed. If a regime has the power to enforce its will and coerce its people, and remain in power, it can impose whatever laws and punishments it sees fit, with or without the consent of its people.

In light of history I am asking you whether you think societies have the right to impose their laws upon people. It's a simple yes or no question.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
In light of history I am asking you whether societies have the right to impose their laws upon people. It's a simple yes or no question.

Read some history and make your own mind up. As for what I believe, I think I have already answered your question. For me, and my political philosophy, "the right" to draw up and enforce laws can be based only on democratic, constitutional legitimacy. The degree to which those laws and what people consider to be morally sound principles overlap or coincide will vary from regime to regime.

Originally posted by @fmf
Read some history and make your own mind up. As for what I believe, I think I have already answered your question. For me, and my political philosophy, "the right" to draw up and enforce laws can be based only on democratic, constitutional legitimacy. The degree to which those laws and what people consider to be morally sound principles overlap or coincide will vary from regime to regime.

A potential constitutional principle: WRT any rule governing the behavior of persons, the rule should be such that the rule-makers are indifferent to which of the persons they happen to be.

This is somewhat awkwardly stated but it seeks to address a flaw in the golden rule.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Are there any moral standards that you think should be imposed upon people by anyone? If so upon what basis?

Which of your moral principles do you think should be turned into laws by society and thus made obligatory for me and other non-Christians?

Originally posted by @fmf
Which of your moral principles do you think should be turned into laws by society and thus made obligatory for me and other non-Christians?

I think all the obvious ones already are laws.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I think all the obvious ones already are laws.

What about issues like adultery and homosexual sex ...and also 'getting angry with one's brother' which you have argued is "equally as evil" as murder?

Originally posted by @fmf
What about issues like adultery and homosexual sex ...and also 'getting angry with one's brother' which you have argued is "equally as evil" as murder?

Getting angry with your brother and killing him is obviously worse than just getting angry with him even if both actions are sinful. I have explained this to you in the past, have you already forgotten? I don't think adulterers and homosexuals should be killed or imprisoned. Neither should someone who gets angry with their brother. If you can make a case from the Bible that they should, be my guest. I think you already know my stance on Leviticus.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Getting angry with your brother and killing him is obviously worse than just getting angry with him even if both actions are sinful.

But you have stated in the past - and you stood steadfastly by the moral assertion for months and months - that getting angry with one's sibling and murdering 6,000,000 people are "equally evil" and that they deserve the same punishment. How is this take on morality and justice to be reflected in the laws you would impose on a society?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
don't think adulterers and homosexuals should be killed or imprisoned.

I didn't suggest they should be killed. Nor did I suggest you thought they should be. I've asked you how your moral stances on adultery and homosexual sex would affect the laws you would enact pertaining to those supposedly immoral acts, but you've sidestepped it.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So you agree that a society can impose any law it wants to upon its people?

It can try. That is all anyone or anything can ever do, is try. The question should be: and what will YOU try?

Originally posted by @fmf
But you have stated in the past - and you stood steadfastly by the moral assertion for months and months - that getting angry with one's sibling and murdering 6,000,000 people are "equally evil" and that they deserve the same punishment. How is this take on morality and justice to be reflected in the laws you would impose on a society?

Equally evil as in 'sinful'. As far as I can tell any sin whether big or small can keep you out of Heaven if you haven't been cleansed of it. I was speaking in Biblical terms. Jesus said if you get angry with your brother you are in danger of judgement. If you call him a fool you are in danger of the fires of hell. If you can prove to me out of the Bible that certain sins will be overlooked feel free to do so.

Originally posted by @fmf
I didn't suggest they should be killed. Nor did I suggest you thought they should be. I've asked you how your moral stances on adultery and homosexual sex would affect the laws you would enact pertaining to those supposedly immoral acts, but you've sidestepped it.

Jesus said let him who has no sin throw the first stone when they brought him the woman caught in adultery I would guess the same applies to homosexuality.