Amazing, and poor show from you.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The first requirement in the spiritual life is to follow 4 basic rules.

1. no meat eating
2. no illicit sex.
3. no gambling. or speculation
4. no intoxication or drugs.

If a Buddhist eats meat, then they are fraudulent, and are nonsense.

Ther is no medical condition that requires one to eat meat.

what about killing and going to war?

Hey its ok i am a vegetarian, buda buda buda! your dead, but dont worry i wont eat yah!?

Its ok i am chaste, buda buda buda, its ok i dont do necrophilia!

Its ok i dont gamble, buda buda buda, throws cards down upon the corpse, ace of spades for you my friend

its ok im not high when i open my sub machine gun, buda buda buda!there i killed in perfect sobriety, its the only way to do it.

Love is the identifying mark of a truly spiritual person, not what you eat or what you drink or what you wear!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Love is the identifying mark of a truly spiritual person, not what you eat or what you drink or what you wear!

Beautiful, robbie!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

Love is the identifying mark of a truly spiritual person, not what you eat or what you drink or what you wear!

And amen.
And I might add ...and also not what forms of belief or non-belief you may ascribe to. Jesus made clear this was primary in his understanding, both in his words and practice.

Those who do not know how to show compassion for others, including those whom they disagree with conceptually are a long way still from true spirituality.

To base spirituality on a set of relative moral rules is a materialistic form of spirituality

A loving, kind and compassionate immoral person is far closer to the "Kingdom of Heaven" than any self-righteous rule maker- usually for others. The primary spiritual "rules" they are oblivious of, that they are breaking, seem never to be made, or at least made primary, or shown in maintained attempts at practice.

As Tathagata made clear, the truest insight wisdom brings about compassion and without compassion our in-sight is poor.


Sub:
There are variants in all paths including Buddhism. Buddhism tends to be able to adapt to the social mores of different societies. There variants of both Hindus and Buddhists that are not vegetarian, but neither would accept cruelty to animals.

A lot of these "rules" as in Christianity, are accretions of later others not the original teacher.

There are Buddhist and Hindu societies that accept honest and caring extra-marital sex. Western heterosexual monogamy is not the only relational model in other religious societies.

As to drinking, drugs and gambling it is common wisdom that excess in any of these areas (as with sex) is deleterious, unhelpful and with risks that can lead away from deeper spiritual understanding or effective practice. Some plant form "drugs" have been used in mild form in spiritual exploration in numerous paths.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is it true Agers, and i do not for one moment expect you to speak on behalf of all Atheists, never the less, is it true that you try to undermine and destroy a persons faith in God because you have evaluated that its in a persons best interests to be deviod of any allusions of God. I know its a rather straight laced question, devoid of subtlety, but ...[text shortened]... s better off 'free', from thoughts of the divine, its ok, please speak frankly, i can take it.

The question posed here is a two way street in that it can equally apply to you; i.e. are you trying to undermine my own outlook on the world and compel me to believe that tangible evidence, sound logical reasoning, and testable, validated hypotheses (independendent of some unperceivable, untestable supernatural realm/objects) that fit with presently available data are a poor metric via which one assesses what is possible and what is not?
(for example 6000 year old earth despite damning scientific evidence to the contrary because of the stories (untestable) told in the Bible)
Are you trying to warp my facilities to appraise the world around me by imposing upon me the notion that anything is possible (and occurs should your God will it so)?

I would say I'm not trying to undermine your faith per se; but as an atheist you can't blame me for attempting to pose questions so to highlight weaknesses in your current model of the supernatural - given there is no way for me to make them tenable in my own mind. That said, if hypothetically speaking you arrived at a more reasonable and coherent formulation of some god, through my own, or more likely other atheists' arguments I wouldn't say we've done you a disservice.
More importantly I am quite confident that there is no way for me or other atheists to damage your faith even if we did ask difficult questions, since their effect would be as transient as your memory of the specifics of said dialogue (I don't understand what it's like to have faith in God but I know from my battles with Christian friends in the 'real world' it's both resilient and elastic).

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I have said before, I dont hate anyone,....but I do hate any false teaching that misdirects the people, because it is the cause of every trouble in the world.

Well given you often seem to prefix "atheist" with "lying", "dishonest", "child abusing", "fault finding", "rascal", "intellectually defective", etc... without necessarily referencing any particular atheist; it's reasonable to conclude you hate us :]

Originally posted by Agerg
Well given you often seem to prefix "atheist" with "lying", "dishonest", "child abusing", "fault finding", "rascal", "intellectually defective", etc... without necessarily referencing any particular atheist; it's reasonable to conclude you hate us :]

I do not hate any person, how could I , because it would go against my spirituality....(not meaning that its a rule to not hate, and I have to be bound against my will to follow it)......but I see everyone as a spiritual being, and part of God.

So because I understand and know without any doubt that every living thing, is a part and parcle of the Supreme Lord....then it is impossible for me to hate, and I understand that everyone is under the influence of Maya (illusion) and they are acting out their materialism.

But I do hate false teachings of any kind, because the world is completely messed up, and its directly caused by the lack of spiritual knowledge, which is misdirecting everyone.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what about killing and going to war?

Hey its ok i am a vegetarian, buda buda buda! your dead, but dont worry i wont eat yah!?

Its ok i am chaste, buda buda buda, its ok i dont do necrophilia!

Its ok i dont gamble, buda buda buda, throws cards down upon the corpse, ace of spades for you my friend

its ok im not high when i open my sub ...[text shortened]... entifying mark of a truly spiritual person, not what you eat or what you drink or what you wear!

Yes but when you love rightly, you dont do those things.

The so called love of this world is false love...its artificial.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The first requirement in the spiritual life is to follow 4 basic rules.

1. no meat eating
2. no illicit sex.
3. no gambling. or speculation
4. no intoxication or drugs.

If a Buddhist eats meat, then they are fraudulent, and are nonsense.

Ther is no medical condition that requires one to eat meat.

I hardly think that these are the "first requirement in the spiritual life".
If one is able to absorb/work off the karma from meat eating then one is absolved from it. Sometimes you come across as putting down everything, like everything (athiestic) is bad ,dishonest,etc,etc.
There are plenty of positive things to be said about athiests and scientists, and I for one , feel even a indebted to the latter

Originally posted by duecer
its called hepatitis.

the Buddha says one must follow the dharma practically, so if one has to supplement their diet with meat on health grounds, then eating meat is unfortunately a necessity for healthy living and mental well being.

more important than right actions are right thought and right understanding

You are quite right there, deucer. I remember one such story of where bhuddists were migrating into meat eating region and were forced to eat meat to maintain their health. Of course maintaining good health comes before some karmic principle. In fact it could be argued that you are going against gods will (hindu god..whichever one? )if you neglect your health and waste a perfectly good vessel that you were fortunate enough to be born into.

Originally posted by Taoman
And amen.
And I might add ...and also not what forms of belief or non-belief you may ascribe to. Jesus made clear this was primary in his understanding, both in his words and practice.

Those who do not know how to show compassion for others, including those whom they disagree with conceptually are a long way still from true spirituality.

To base spir ant form "drugs" have been used in mild form in spiritual exploration in numerous paths.

I dont know about you, but I see drugs, drinking,sex and all desirous things as coming from the one scouce. And the base of that scource is the sexual centre.
I see people giving up all sorts of things like drinking and smoking (with mixed results) but I see that as "trimming the branches" . I believe if one is serious one should "attack the root" of the problem .(Remove the base desire and you remove all of them.)
So thats what I do . Attack the root. Even though I may fail, I know that one day all my vices will be alleviated for good, in one swift change.
My main practice in this regard is not masturbating. I have become succesful at this, and find it very important to keep those precious juices inside me. Can you relate to any of that?

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I do not hate any person, how could I , because it would go against my spirituality....(not meaning that its a rule to not hate, and I have to be bound against my will to follow it)......but I see everyone as a spiritual being, and part of God.

So because I understand and know without any doubt that every living thing, is a part and parcle of the Supre ...[text shortened]... up, and its directly caused by the lack of spiritual knowledge, which is misdirecting everyone.

Thats what you say, but I think you come across as the most hateful one on this forum. Furhturmore, where you may say you believe "everyone as a spiritual being, and a part of God", your posts certainly dont seem to reflect this belief at all.
Consider your posts to black beetle and your non-answers to a few of his questions. I really don't see how you may be treating beetle "as a spiritual being" or " part of God". This is just the example off the top of my head, but I think it should suffice to illustrate my point.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is it true Agers, and i do not for one moment expect you to speak on behalf of all Atheists, never the less, is it true that you try to undermine and destroy a persons faith in God because you have evaluated that its in a persons best interests to be deviod of any allusions of God. I know its a rather straight laced question, devoid of subtlety, but ...[text shortened]... s better off 'free', from thoughts of the divine, its ok, please speak frankly, i can take it.

I don't think i've ever referred to the JW's as a cult. I've been very careful to distance myself from such language, granted though i think you're a bunch of loonies. I think there are some very admirable qualities that pertain to your organisation, and some qualities that i deeply resent. But not a cult, 'borg'-like for sure.

As for the use of the word delusion. I wouldn't say that it applies to people who just believe in God. You'd have to add in the blind acceptance of religious dogma to reach delusion in me eyes. For a Christian that would be believing man came from Adam & Eve 6,000yrs or so ago, believing the world is only 6,000yrs old, the rejection of evolution and the acceptance of 'The Flood' story to the letter.

In my eyes the acceptance of a number of these traits is the mark of a 'fundamentalist', so i would say it's your fundamentalist sensibilities that are a delusion, not a bleief in God.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Thats what you say, but I think you come across as the most hateful one on this forum. Furhturmore, where you may say you believe "everyone as a spiritual being, and a part of God", your posts certainly dont seem to reflect this belief at all.
Consider your posts to black beetle and your non-answers to a few of his questions. I really don't see how you ...[text shortened]... the example off the top of my head, but I think it should suffice to illustrate my point.

When someone doesnt know, they enquire submissively to find out, but Bettle is the most dangerous pseudo spiritualist, because he glamorizes atheism to sound actually spiritual, but for one that knows, I can see through his tactics.

Even when I have set him straight on some matters, he quickly rejects on the basis of his all knowing mind, which he considers supreme.

Therefore i speak harshly with him, because he is the worst kind of atheist, and his talking (so called spirituality) is misdirecting any would be seeker, down the path to atheism.