02 Oct 16
Originally posted by apathistYou sound like Fetchmyjunk.
Stand. As in make a stand. It's an american thing, means to make a determined effort to defend something or to stop something from happening. What are you on about. What are you defending. Your tactic isn't working, so try actually explaining yourself.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 28795
02 Oct 16
Originally posted by divegeester"There will always be a combination of a sense of internal need to help and of personal gratification in having done so.It's still a good thing, but to say there is no personal interest is simply false in my opinion."
No that doesn't follow at all. Sometimes people do extraordinary acts of kindness where there is demonstrable effort and self sacrifice , Pergaps in time, money or other loss. However these people will always be acting on some level of personal self interest also. There will always be a combination of a sense of internal need to help and of personal grat ...[text shortened]...
It's stil a good thing, but to say there is no personal interest is simply false in my opinon.
What of altruistic acts that are detrimental to the self and bring no personal gratification or self interest? I can think of many examples.
02 Oct 16
Originally posted by apathistThe onus is on you to explain how anything I've said in this thread indicates that I think doing good things is "offensive". It's your claim, not mine.
Stand. As in make a stand. It's an american thing, means to make a determined effort to defend something or to stop something from happening. What are you on about. What are you defending. Your tactic isn't working, so try actually explaining yourself.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 28795
02 Oct 16
Originally posted by divegeesterWhat of acts 'that help other people' that are detrimental to the self and bring no personal gratification or self interest?
You need to firstly remove the word "altruistic" from your question as it is pre-determining the outcome.
Are those acts not altruistic in the commonly understood definition?
02 Oct 16
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeAs I've said several times in this thread we need to agree on a definition of altruism.
What of acts 'that help other people' that are detrimental to the self and bring no personal gratification or self interest?
Are those acts not altruistic in the commonly understood definition?
Currently it seems to include the claim that an act deemed to have been altruistic will have no personal gain or self interest whatsoever. I dispute that there any act carried out anywhere by anyone that meet this criteria. If you have a different criteria or definition then we can discuss that?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 28795
02 Oct 16
Originally posted by divegeesterI'm not sure how we can arrive at a definition for something that you have already stated doesn't exist.
As I've said several times in this thread we need to agree on a definition of altruism.
Currently it seems to include the claim that an act deemed to have been altruistic will have no personal gain or self interest whatsoever. I dispute that there any act carried out anywhere by anyone that meet this criteria. If you have a different criteria or definition then we can discuss that?
For me, an altruistic act is an act that puts other people first. The most beautiful kind of altruism is where there is no personal benefit, but even an act that does contain some level of self interest is still an act of altruism.
Originally posted by divegeesterI think you are trolling. You have bastardised the word 'altruism' as well as the term 'self interest'. That you know this is obvious by the fact that you refuse to define either term or answer clarifying questions.
No but I suspect you are you try to claim you have no self interest in caring for your children.
I do maintain that by the standard meaning of 'self interest', I have no self interest in caring for my children. I do not consider carrying out innate desires to be 'self interest'. For me 'self interest' is something that I believe will bring me personal benefit.
Although 'mental satisfaction' may be termed 'self interest' I am neither convinced that it is a satisfactory use of the term except in extreme cases and I am also convinced that that is not always the case anyway.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeForget the word altruism and think about what it means.
I'm not sure how we can arrive at a definition for something that you have already stated doesn't exist.
For me, an altruistic act is an act that puts other people first. The most beautiful kind of altruism is where there is no personal benefit, but even an act that does contain some level of self interest is still an act of altruism.
I agree that putting other people first is a good thing and happens frequently. However I maintain that there is always an element of self interest. Doing something for your kids is obvious, doing it for charity could be obvious as perhaps YOU care about the cause and YOU want to support it, doing so gives YOU a sense of purpose, contribution and well being. Diving into to save a drowning person is less obvious but there is still self interest, perhaps you know the person, perhaps you have known someone who drowned, perhaps YOU just can't bear to stand back and feel compelled to help.
These are all still good things but I believe there is always a driver from the self somewhere.