Originally posted by Suzianne
Honest scrutiny is one thing. Preemptively calling another's beliefs "superstition" or worse, is not mere "honest scrutiny and debate", it's name-calling, and yeah, that is unnecessary.

And because of this, and certain posters' inclination to not show other's beliefs the tiniest scrap of respect (after all, everyone has beliefs, but to be called somehow ...[text shortened]... perhaps you didn't want any. Bad-mouthing people doesn't exactly make them want to engage you.

Its not even that, its simply a rather clumsy attempt to project values that the OP has not expressed.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
How about original sin?

That goes to our nature now.

Originally posted by DeepThought
A problem of time. I'd thought that the general notion is that the relevant time for divine forgiveness is after one dies. That seems to resolve the problem since it is difficult to commit sins after death. This also leaves one responsible for one's post baptismal behaviour.

As far as I can tell when the Pagans converted the kings would fight a ser ...[text shortened]... responsible for one's sins pre-conversion but that one is culpable for the sins committed after.

I do believe people tend to try and find ways to make God work for them, but He doesn't.

Originally posted by KellyJay
That goes to our nature now.

What nature?

our nature of being separated from our Divine scource?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Actually you do not understand. The doctrine some Christians have is that they have eternal life already, they are regenerated and they cannot lose it. In order to support that doctrine they need to find ways to void the passages in the Bible that speak of the consequences of sin. Therefore they must claim that sin is not an issue as Christ died for all the ...[text shortened]... Now if Christ did not die for all sins [which is clear in the Bible], then their doctrine fails.

17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:a The old has gone, the new is here! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.

2 Cor 5:17

Originally posted by Suzianne
Honest scrutiny is one thing. Preemptively calling another's beliefs "superstition" or worse, is not mere "honest scrutiny and debate", it's name-calling, and yeah, that is unnecessary.

And because of this, and certain posters' inclination to not show other's beliefs the tiniest scrap of respect (after all, everyone has beliefs, but to be called somehow ...[text shortened]... perhaps you didn't want any. Bad-mouthing people doesn't exactly make them want to engage you.

Do you think the belief ~ that the "sins" you will commit in the future have somehow been preemptively forgiven as a result of what Jesus did ~ need not be debated because those "sins" have not been committed yet?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its not even that, its simply a rather clumsy attempt to project values that the OP has not expressed.

But KellyJay has expressed these values on umpteen occasions for years here. I can hardly be said to be somehow projecting them onto him.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
What nature?

our nature of being separated from our Divine scource?

Scripturally speaking I'd point you to the verse below, we will be walking out our lives in
one of two states, the default we find ourselves in is the flesh. Where it is basically always
all about us, with some sprinkled in places where we put others before ourselves.


Galatians 5:16
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You sad the debate was unnecessary. I was explaining why it was necessary.

Point taken I understand.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Can you be forgiven or even need to be for something you didn't do?

Once you do something then the need arises doesn't it, but until that time
there would be no need.

So the debate about being forgiven of all future sins seems a bit,
unnecessary to me since no one is a murderer until they murder.

Does God not know what sins you will commit in the future?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Does God not know what sins you will commit in the future?

I'd submit that for things that have not happen yet, its open ended unless you think that
our lives are like a book and we are simply doing what was written without choice to
change. Since I believe God gave us the ability to make a choice it is up to us to make
them. Difficult to judge someone good or bad without the ability to do only one and not
the other. I do think He has every base covered no matter what.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd submit that for things that have not happen yet, its open ended unless you think that
our lives are like a book and we are simply doing what was written without choice to
change. Since I believe God gave us the ability to make a choice it is up to us to make
them. Difficult to judge someone good or bad without the ability to do only one and not
the other. I do think He has every base covered no matter what.

Indeed, he has every base covered.
Heb 10:10
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
NKJV

Heb 10:12-14
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
NKJV

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd submit that for things that have not happen yet, its open ended unless you think that
our lives are like a book and we are simply doing what was written without choice to
change. Since I believe God gave us the ability to make a choice it is up to us to make
them. Difficult to judge someone good or bad without the ability to do only one and not
the other. I do think He has every base covered no matter what.

Difficult to judge someone good or bad without the ability to
See... you are still in the camp where we are judged by works, rather than through Jesus Christ as our substitute and sacrificial lamb.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]Difficult to judge someone good or bad without the ability to
See... you are still in the camp where we are judged by works, rather than through Jesus Christ as our substitute and sacrificial lamb.[/b]

Jesus is my righteousness, but that doesn't mean that works are not apart of life.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Jesus is my righteousness, but that doesn't mean that works are not apart of life.

Jesus should be our everything. And the works are a byproduct of our new nature. They have nothing to do with salvation.