22 Sep 07
Originally posted by AThousandYoungDarn you...
The only reason thugs haven't already robbed you and raped your female relatives is because mightier people - the police - protect you. There is also the possibility that you have might of your own in the form of personal weapons which would help protect you and yours.
22 Sep 07
It's rather depressing to still see the absurd claim that without some magical super being dictating a set of rules to humans there is no such thing as objective morality. Of course, there are many systems of thought that posit an objective morality without a God. The Laws of Karma are an example; these are self-regulating laws of nature. There are many more.
I also take issue with ATY's view that without police or other forces, the normal state of humans is to prey on each other. Humans are social animals who generally interact in a cooperative way. There is little evidence of predatory criminality in primitive societies; if such behavior was only constrained by superior force one would think that it would be rampant in such societies. Sociological and anthropological studies indicate the reverse, however.
22 Sep 07
Originally posted by gaychessplayerShouldn't you serve Him out of love and gratitude and not fear? Your reasons for serving Him seam cynical. Don’t you think that an omnipotent being would know whether someone is being sincere or not? If you "believe" because it's the safe path, then you don't really believe at all and God will know the difference.
I'll serve Him, if that's what He demands to keep me out of Hell.
22 Sep 07
Originally posted by rickgarelYes, I should serve Him out of love and gratitude, but I don't know how to bring myself to that state. A professor at a Christian university once said that God doesn't send people to Hell because they don't love Him, but rather He sends people to Hell because they don't let God love them.
Shouldn't you serve Him out of love and gratitude and not fear? Your reasons for serving Him seam cynical. Don’t you think that an omnipotent being would know whether someone is being sincere or not? If you "believe" because it's the safe path, then you don't really believe at all and God will know the difference.
23 Sep 07
Originally posted by no1marauderBut the laws of Karma reflect somewhat what scripture points out as well. For example, Karma teaches that we are repsonsible for our actions and the effects of those actions. Conversly, the Bible teaches that whatever a man sows that will he also reap. Both indicate an ability to choose ones destiny via are own free will.
[b]It's rather depressing to still see the absurd claim that without some magical super being dictating a set of rules to humans there is no such thing as objective morality. Of course, there are many systems of thought that posit an objective morality without a God. The Laws of Karma are an example; these are self-regulating laws of nature. There are many more.
Must God be included in such an equation? Not necessarily, however, for me it is like asking about the laws of gravity. They work for those who may believe that God set up such laws as well as for those who do not believe in his existence. If one obeys certain Godly principles/laws then they may reap the rewards for doing so, however, that does not mean they believe in the power behind such principles/laws.
23 Sep 07
Originally posted by no1marauderSo without the existence of police and other forces society would get along just fine? It then begs the question as to why the police and other forces exist in the first place, does it not? Perhaps they exist as a means for preying on the rest of society in some form or fashion then? But how can this be if it is not human nature to prey upon each other in the first place?
I also take issue with ATY's view that without police or other forces, the normal state of humans is to prey on each other. Humans are social animals who generally interact in a cooperative way. There is little evidence of predatory criminality in primitive societies; if such behavior was only constrained by superior force one would think that it wo ...[text shortened]... pant in such societies. Sociological and anthropological studies indicate the reverse, however.[/b]
23 Sep 07
1 edit
Originally posted by gaychessplayerI once suffered from this type of twisted thinking. I once thought that God went around waiting for me to get out of line so he could thump me over the head with a sledge hammer. Then one day I had a revelation. God is on my side.
Yes, I should serve Him out of love and gratitude, but I don't know how to bring myself to that state. A professor at a Christian university once said that God doesn't send people to Hell because they don't love Him, but rather He sends people to Hell because they don't let God love them.
Do you know what the term devil means? It means accuser. Biblically we are given the picture of the devil going around looking for those who are sinning and demanding that they get what they deserve. In effect, the devil is the one with the sledge hammer, not the other way around. God's response was to send us his Son to die for us. That does'nt sound like someone that wishes to punish us for our sins does it?
Every time I read the teachings of Christ and his love message I fall in love with him all over again. I think the only way to not fall in love with him is view some or all of his teachings as being distasteful. So what's not to love?
23 Sep 07
Originally posted by whodeyAmazingly enough, societies functioned and have functioned, for tens of thousands of years without police forces. "Human nature" is not an explanation for recent inventions of certain societies and it is sloppy thinking to believe such a thing.
So without the existence of police and other forces society would get along just fine? It then begs the question as to why the police and other forces exist in the first place, does it not? Perhaps they exist as a means for preying on the rest of society in some form or fashion then? But how can this be if it is not human nature to prey upon each other in the first place?
23 Sep 07
2 edits
Originally posted by whodeyApparently you forgot what you claimed earlier in this thread:
But the laws of Karma reflect somewhat what scripture points out as well. For example, Karma teaches that we are repsonsible for our actions and the effects of those actions. Conversly, the Bible teaches that whatever a man sows that will he also reap. Both indicate an ability to choose ones destiny via are own free will.
Must God be included in such ...[text shortened]... for doing so, however, that does not mean they believe in the power behind such principles/laws.
whodey: On the other hand, if there is no God then we will be the final authority in terms of right and wrong so long as we have or maintain the authority to not be held accountable for our actions.
This statement is simply inconsistent with the existence of objective morality such as that in the Laws of Karma. One doesn't have to believe in a Super Duper God to believe in an objective morality that exists outside of the individual opinions of human beings.
EDIT: I'll give another site that I'm sure you won't bother to read: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
This quote in particular is relevant: Like all other natural laws they demand no lawgiver.