Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I think the complexity of the subject means that one cannot legislate so easily as it appears many people would like.

Kinda like laws on the books not to kill?

Sure, there are legal ins and outs to killing legally and it is a complex issue, but there should be laws against murder just the same.

It is responses such as "It's too complex an issue" that makes me understand that the pro-life crowd is on the right side of history.

Originally posted by Eladar
You mean the sacrifice of a person.

The sacrifice of the baby for convenience! Those who embrace abortion as a 'right' will often cite the need for abortion in cases of rape and incest. While I have not found myself in the unfortunate circumstance of pregnancy for the given reasons (I am male), these are the exception rather than the rule for abortion.

A quick google of abortions in America since Roe v. Wade in 1973 (www.lifenews.com), reveals 58mil+ have taken place, that is staggering. Wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by whodey
Kinda like laws on the books not to kill?

Sure, there are legal ins and outs to killing legally and it is a complex issue, but there should be laws against murder just the same.

It is responses such as "It's too complex an issue" that makes me understand that the pro-life crowd is on the right side of history.

Kinda like that yeah. I don't really think of myself as pro-choice or pro-life. In general, I do think abortion is something which shouldn't be available to people freely in the way it is in western society.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Kinda like that yeah. I don't really think of myself as pro-choice or pro-life. In general, I do think abortion is something which shouldn't be available to people freely in the way it is in western society.

Can a woman get an abortion if she gets raped?
Edit: in your opinion (sorry for being unclear)

Originally posted by robbebop
Can a woman get an abortion if she gets raped?

I think in your country she can. Any woman can get an abortion even if not raped.

Personally I think the rapist should get the death penalty not the innocent.

Originally posted by robbebop
Can a woman get an abortion if she gets raped?

Why is it that abortion rights advocates always bring up rape and incest to defend their positions?

This is disingenuous to say the least. Those topics need to be handled separately.

The issue is abortion on demand, and those apologists for it refuse to defend it on its merits and instead hide behind such issues as rape.

Originally posted by whodey
Why is it that abortion rights advocates always bring up rape and incest to defend their positions?

This is disingenuous to say the least. Those topics need to be handled separately.

The issue is abortion on demand, and those apologists for it refuse to defend it on its merits and instead hide behind such issues as rape.

I didn't say I supported abortion, I was just asking a question. Could you please answer that question.

Originally posted by robbebop
Can a woman get an abortion if she gets raped?

Currently where I live you don't need any reason at all to get an abortion.

Are you asking me if I think abortion should be permissable if the foetus was conceived via rape? Well I think that depends. I think the psychological and physical well-being of the mother should be considered, certainly. I think there are instances where termination of a rape baby might well be the best course of action, I think there are also circumstances where that might not be the case. I think that given sufficient and sufficiently effective counselling, it should rarely be necessary however.

Originally posted by Eladar
I think in your country she can. Any woman can get an abortion even if not raped.

Personally I think the rapist should get the death penalty not the innocent.

you are correct, in my country she can. I edited my question, it was unclear sorry

Originally posted by Suzianne
So life with God is "meaningless"?

No, I must disagree.

Life without God is not meaningless.

I made no comment about whether or not life 'with' God is meaningless. As an atheist, that's not for me to say, though assume a theist finds it meaningful..

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Would you say the ingredients of a chemical soup are also precious and have intrinsic value?

Is clay precious, with intrinsic value?

Originally posted by apathist
A deep and divisive subject.

Should a woman have a right to choose? What are the boundaries, and why?

What about the man? What rights for him?

I think it is difficult to balance the rights of the father.
However, I do not think the fetus has rights, nor do I think abortion is murder.

Originally posted by whodey
It is responses such as "It's too complex an issue" that makes me understand that the pro-life crowd is on the right side of history.

It is this kind of ridiculous reasoning that makes me understand that you probably won't be on the right side of anything.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Is clay precious, with intrinsic value?

I think its worth a thread of its own. I'll start one.

Originally posted by whodey
Your belief on the subject boils down to belief in God.

Do you believe man is simply a glorified animal to be treated as such or a being made in the image of God that is distinct from the animal kingdom with natural rights?

That is the dividing line.

That is not the dividing line in non-theocracies.

"The long-standing, well-established constitutional right to privacy places limits on the government’s ability to interfere with a person’s most basic, personal decisions – including the decision whether and when to bear children. The right to abortion was first recognized four decades ago, and the Supreme Court has repeatedly reaffirmed its central holding, yet this fundamental constitutional right is under ever-increasing attack."

-National Women's Law Center

It is possible to have a reasoned debate on this, but first we have to agree on whether we are or should be a theocracy of the sort that bans abortions.