05 Feb 10
Originally posted by knightmeisterClassic. Ultimately this reflects position of Paulians whether they are in a state of denial about it or not.
It falls short of the standard set by Jesus.
----------ToOne--------------------
Maybe Jesus got it wrong? Maybe he set the standard too high? Or maybe his teachings don't have any more authority than anyone else's ?
Why do you believe his teachings are so authoritative?
05 Feb 10
Originally posted by Conrau KThe point was that both crying 'Lord, Lord' and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord are just talk. In the passage from Matthew, Jesus teaches that you have to walk the walk.
[b]Clearly crying 'Lord, Lord' is not enough, which is what confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord amounts to.
No. What Jesus means here is that those who cry out to him for mercy will not receive it. It is not a confession of faith in Jesus Christ but a plea for clemency. Furthermore, when Paul wrote about 'confessing with your mouth', the ea ...[text shortened]... ring a time of intense persecution in which confession could be fatal. This is hardly cheap.[/b]
05 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KIf you are referring to Romans 2, see the "blood sacrifice" thread. If you have something definitive, then by all means start a thread on it so that those who believe in a flavor of cheap salvation having roots in the teachings of Paul can be straightened out. I'd be all for it.
And Paul affirms all these points.
05 Feb 10
Originally posted by knightmeisterFreaky had presented that presumably as an example of Jesus granting cheap salvation. The reality is that Jesus does not give His motivation or explain the criteria used for His judgment. I was pointing this out.
There is nothing in the story of the thief that precludes the idea of him having become righteous between the time of his criminal offense to the time he was crucified.
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What a kop out. What a wild speculation.
If that's what happened , then what inspired such a transformation in the thief so that he could c ...[text shortened]... ards very low.
See ya --I'm off to grab next door's DVD player..........LOL
05 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou got me there. Still I stand by my words but with this qualification: In the beginning some things may seem harder than others but furthur down the track we see that nothing is easy or hard. Does that put my words into better context of what I'm trying to say?
[b]In my way of looking at things I dont make some things out to be more difficult than other things. The Way is not hard or easy.
Are you sure? My post was in response to the following statement / question from you:
"The faith to realize God is imminent and not just some story written in a book is much more difficult to practice than anything else really. Dont you think , ToOne?"[/b]
05 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIt doesn't matter because all the thief had to do was to say that he deserved to be punished and ask Jesus to remember him.....and Hey presto! salvation is gained.
Freaky had presented that presumably as an example of Jesus granting cheap salvation. The reality is that Jesus does not give His motivation or explain the criteria used for His judgment. I was pointing this out.
No walking the walk or anything....just a few words on a cross.
The thief hardly hits the mark for "expensive" salvation , and yet he still got it.
That means that even if I am a liar and unrighteous it doesn't matter as long as I admit that I deserve to be punished and ask Jesus to remember me. Not that hard.
I'm sure many serial killers have done similar things walking up to be executed. How do you make sense of Jesus granting salvation on such a cheap basis? It must irritate you somewhat eh?
BTW- I'm off to sleep with my mate's wife - no worries I'll just ask Jesus to remember me and admit I deserve punishment and it'll be Ok.
05 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe point was that both crying 'Lord, Lord' and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord are just talk.
The point was that both crying 'Lord, Lord' and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord are just talk. In the passage from Matthew, Jesus teaches that you have to walk the walk.
------------ToOne---------
And saying "remember me when you come into your kingdom" isn't???
05 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneAre you not able to spot a bit of satire and sarcasm when you see it? Your mind is so limited! It's a rhetorical question aimed at you.
Classic. Ultimately this reflects position of Paulians whether they are in a state of denial about it or not.
The fact that you thought I was actually serious ( or maybe you didn't and just playing counter sarcasm?) says a lot about your mentality.
I know why Jesus's words have authority , I just want to know why you give them authority over Paul.
Think about it you silly man. You have been going on about Jesus's trachings for years now but not once have you said why Jesus is so important and authoritative.
So , why do you give authority to Jesus' teachings? Afterall , he was just a man wasn't he? (satire) Why should we listen to him over Paul who is another man? (more satire)
06 Feb 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelIn a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
You got me there. Still I stand by my words but with this qualification: In the beginning some things may seem harder than others but furthur down the track we see that nothing is easy or hard. Does that put my words into better context of what I'm trying to say?
History has shown that people are more than content to fall short of the above if they believe that "salvation" can be had with them doing something less.
06 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIn a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
In a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
History has shown that people are more than content to fall short of the above if they believe that "salvation" can be had with them doing something less.
----ToOnE-----------------
eR........thief?
Did you forget about him or have you cut out that particular page from your Bible?
Thieving and then talking to Jesus before you die - not exactly expensive salvation eh?
07 Feb 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWell I guess what you are trying to say is that "cheap salvation" is not salvation at all. Not that I really like to use the word "salvation", but I get the gist of what you're saying.
In a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
History has shown that people are more than content to fall short of the above if they believe that "salvation" can be had with them doing something less.
ThinkofZero would've been my handle 🙂
07 Feb 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelYeah, that's what puts the "cheap" in "cheap salvation."
Well I guess what you are trying to say is that "cheap salvation" is not salvation at all. Not that I really like to use the word "salvation", but I get the gist of what you're saying.
ThinkofZero would've been my handle 🙂
I'm thinking I could have gone a couple of decades and not come up with anything even remotely resembling "karoly aczel" for my handle 🙂
09 Feb 10
1 edit
I think the thief was fully aware of his situation. I think He was granted insight about Christ that day. The thief was a criminal he knew Christ was not. The thief knew that he deserved what he got. He even said to the other criminal on a cross do you not fear God? The other was cursing at Jesus to come down off the cross and save himself. Also just because Jesus granted the thief salvation that day in no way makes it cheap. Christ took on the punishment and paid for ours sins that day!! It was very costly but the true believer knows this!! 🙂 So continue to spout off how cheap it is or whatever. The apostle Paul also knew that it was not a cheap salvation. He had to suffer the sufferings of Christ because Christ made Paul do this. It's so easy to judge you need to read closer what Paul says. Paul was used by Christ He was an instrument in the Hands of God. I think I would listen to Paul before Thinkofone. Paul would tell you to obey Christ. You have a real bad hang up about Paul. What weird cult do you belong to anyway?
Manny
09 Feb 10
Originally posted by menace71The point, I think, is that salvation* is cheap for the one getting saved, not necessarily for Jesus.
I think the thief was fully aware of his situation. I think He was granted insight about Christ that day. The thief was a criminal he knew Christ was not. The thief knew that he deserved what he got. He even said to the other criminal on a cross do you not fear God? The other was cursing at Jesus to come down off the cross and save himself. Also just becau ...[text shortened]... st. You have a real bad hang up about Paul. What weird cult do you belong to anyway?
Manny
However, when you think about it in more detail, what really was sacrificed? It was not Jesus' life, because he got that back in 3 days. Nor would he fear death, because he knew he would be resurrected.
Other than having a really bad weekend, what did he lose?
* - Evangelicals are always telling people that they just need to believe in Jesus and pray that one little prayer and PRESTO!~ - saved.