expelled

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't think those guys with degrees in those very subjects you are
saying ID people shouldn't be allowed to teach, don't have a clue? Is it
that they just need to get their heads right, get help, go see a doctor
to get their minds right or something? Could it be they do have a clue,
but just because they may not agree with you they don't obviously
...[text shortened]... her are just off the
mark and sinners that need to be dealt with one way or another?
Kelly

Do you want me teaching your kids theology?

How about a Satanist? A Muslim who believes Al-Quaida is a divinely inspired group of Paladin-like warriors?

Originally posted by KellyJay
At what point has a "magic man" popped up in our conversation? As
was pointed out before, simply acknowledging ID does not mean any
thing outside of acknowledging ID, going beyond that is just like
saying evolution is true, because there is no God, Your bringing that
up suggests you are not going to acknowledge ID more so because
you are scared of whose ID it could have been, not because it is
possible life requires ID.
Kelly

"Magic Man" or "Intelligent Designer" - same thing.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You equate suggesting ID is a possiblity, that is like saying to you
that someone could translocate themselves at hyper luminal velorcites
using pure thought? Wow, you got it in for those that agree it may
be required in life don't you?
Kelly

You got it in for those that agree that someone could translocate themselves at hyperluminal velocities using pure though don't you?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
"Magic Man" or "Intelligent Designer" - same thing.

Wow so companies like Ford, GM, 3M, Motorola, Intel, and AMD are all
like magic to you? Since they design things and make them out of the
material they have available to them?
Kelly

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Uh...yes. You know...hypotheses, experiments? That's science.

Not saying it isn't science, what I'm asking you is if you learn
something yet cannot predict with it that isn't science in your opinion?
Kelly

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Deal! All is forgotten. 🙂

Were we talking about anything in this thread? 😉

🙂
I guess not, if we were, we long ago stopped and went at each other
instead.

Shall we try again?

I.D.; do you think cars aremade with I.D.? Lets start small and work
our way up. 🙂 If you said yes do you think we could prove that if we
didn't know where they were or how they were made?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
🙂
I guess not, if we were, we long ago stopped and went at each other
instead.

Shall we try again?

I.D.; do you think cars aremade with I.D.? Lets start small and work
our way up. 🙂 If you said yes do you think we could prove that if we
didn't know where they were or how they were made?
Kelly

Part of the problem with cars is that we know what they are and so we know that they have a designer. This goes to our own societal perspective where we actually know some things are made.

If some creature from an alien planet that had no idea about the way our planet worked and saw a car - would they be able to know without any other knowledge of our world that that car was designed? Of course, after they investigated and saw factories and and saw that they were made then they would have to come to that conclusion. I'm just not convinced that without that societal influence that they would just "know" that it was designed.

I don't think complexity necessarily implies design - and I think that's the issue.

Even if we assume there was a designer, with our natural world we would still want to know how it was designed and ID doesn't say anything about how we would find that out. It just doesn't provide any real explanation - just an assumption that it must be designed.

I really haven't found anything on ID that doesn't just boil down to the idea that it's complex so it must be designed.

Originally posted by KellyJay
🙂
I guess not, if we were, we long ago stopped and went at each other
instead.

Shall we try again?

I.D.; do you think cars aremade with I.D.? Lets start small and work
our way up. 🙂 If you said yes do you think we could prove that if we
didn't know where they were or how they were made?
Kelly

Cars, and any other non living object, are totally different from a LIVING creature. A point you seem to continually mistake.

Do the components of a car have a natural affinity to each other?

Stop driving this pointless analogy KJ.

What's next, your "irreducible complexity" argument?

Turn the page KJ, it's growing tiresome............

PS
Like your other posts, don't fabricate what I've said in your response (see previous posts).

Originally posted by KellyJay
🙂
I guess not, if we were, we long ago stopped and went at each other
instead.

Shall we try again?

I.D.; do you think cars aremade with I.D.? Lets start small and work
our way up. 🙂 If you said yes do you think we could prove that if we
didn't know where they were or how they were made?
Kelly

Ok, lets start with the supposition that ID is reality. So the next question is, who or what is this ID'er? Does it live in our universe?
Does it have power over life forms in our universe? Did it in fact manufacture our universe? Does it have power over every atom and sub-atomic particle down to the plank limit? What is your opinion on these questions? Can you answer them all?

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you said yes do you think we could prove that if we
didn't know where they were or how they were made?
Kelly

No, I don't think we could prove it. Do you? Has anyone done so? Is there a formula?

As I have said before, the concept is interesting and worth investigating in a scientific manner. After all, if we find a car like object on an alien planet we might want to know whether or not it was proves the existence of aliens or is simple the result of some non-biological phenomena.
However, until such studies have been done and findings made it is not a 'Theory' and it should not be taught in schools.
Also I have not heard of anyone carrying out any such studies or finding in the affirmative.
An interesting case of such a problem arose when a meteor suspected to be from mars was found to have what looked like remains of life embedded in it. So the question was whether or not the observed structures could be explained without life.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Wow so companies like Ford, GM, 3M, Motorola, Intel, and AMD are all
like magic to you? Since they design things and make them out of the
material they have available to them?
Kelly

I don't think that cars are a natural phenomenon.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Part of the problem with cars is that we know what they are and so we know that they have a designer. This goes to our own societal perspective where we actually know some things are made.

If some creature from an alien planet that had no idea about the way our planet worked and saw a car - would they be able to know without any other knowledge of our ...[text shortened]... n ID that doesn't just boil down to the idea that it's complex so it must be designed.

The trouble I have with what your saying is that you are required to
see the factory to know, you cannot see design without seeing the
factory?
Kelly

Originally posted by timebombted
Cars, and any other non living object, are totally different from a LIVING creature. A point you seem to continually mistake.

Do the components of a car have a natural affinity to each other?

Stop driving this pointless analogy KJ.

What's next, your "irreducible complexity" argument?

Turn the page KJ, it's growing tiresome............

PS
...[text shortened]... ke your other posts, don't fabricate what I've said in your response (see previous posts).

A point I continue to make, yes, even if you refuse to believe in God
or gods at some point non-living matter has to turn into living matter.
The material going from non-life to life has to be a harder change
than non-living to non-living, unless you can show me it isn't.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
Ok, lets start with the supposition that ID is reality. So the next question is, who or what is this ID'er? Does it live in our universe?
Does it have power over life forms in our universe? Did it in fact manufacture our universe? Does it have power over every atom and sub-atomic particle down to the plank limit? What is your opinion on these questions? Can you answer them all?

If ID is a reality, you believe that means who ever did the design had
to create the unvierse too? If you make a car does that mean you
made the highways too? At some point the discussion of how did
everything get here must be made, but it is a different subject.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
A point I continue to make, yes, even if you refuse to believe in God
or gods at some point non-living matter has to turn into living matter.
The material going from non-life to life has to be a harder change
than non-living to non-living, unless you can show me it isn't.
Kelly

The research of "non-life" becoming "life" is not a part of the theory of evolution, but rather belongs to Abiogenesis.

And even if A is more complicated than B, it does not mean that A is impossible.

P.S

You haven't responded to many of my posts.