Real chess problem!

Real chess problem!

Posers and Puzzles

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H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
28 Oct 02

This problem combines logic and chess in an interesting manner:
Is it possible to design a position so that it can be proved that White
has a mate in two moves, yet that it is impossible to exhibit the mate?
And I don't mean a chessboard with pieces weighing several tonnes,
just the chess position (if possible)...

S
The Diplomat

Slightly Left :D

Joined
22 Jun 01
Moves
8518
28 Oct 02

Is this a "helpmate" scenario??

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
28 Oct 02

No just a "normal" (well, not so normal) mate in 2 problem

Now With Added BA

Loughborough

Joined
04 Jul 02
Moves
3790
28 Oct 02

Is this a position where every possible move leads to stalemate in one, so the mate in two is
not forthcoming?

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
28 Oct 02

No. If it is a stalemate in one there can't be mate in two, at least not
in a chessproblem where white (and black) is supposed to play the
best possible move.
I'll reveal the answer later this evening.

Joined
26 May 02
Moves
72546
29 Oct 02

a) If black's last move was 1...e5, then White can take en passant
and after black castles (else 2.g8=Q mate), white has 2.b7 mate!
b) If black's last move was something over than 1..e5, then his last
move must have been made by King or rook, making castling illegal!
Therefore white can play 1.Ke6 and mate next move.

As there is insufficient information to know which condition (a or b) is
true, then the mate in two is proved but cannot be exhibited. A superb
logic problem!

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
29 Oct 02

Bingo!

A superb problem by Raymond Smullyan.
Smullyan wrote two chesslogic books:
- The chess mysteries of Sherlock Holmes (containing this problem)
- The chess mysteries of the Arabian Knights
Regretfully I do not own The Arabian Knights. If anyone knows how I
can get a copy of that I'll be delighted!

Acolyte (and other mathlovers),

You must read these books.
For you (and others of course) I will present my next problem: "the
missing piece"

stitching you up

Joined
08 Apr 02
Moves
7146
29 Oct 02

so what you're trying to say is that mate is possible either way, but
you don't know which one you can play because you didn't see the
previous move? Is that what is meant by "proved" (you know that you
can mate whatever) but cannot be exhibited (you can't do it because
you don't have enogh info).

Sorry - got punched in the head earlier and am not thinking straight
yet.

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
29 Oct 02

yes

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
28 Oct 02

It is possible!
See:
White: Kf5, Ba7, Bg2, b6, d5, d6, f6, g7
Black: Ke8, Ra8, e5
There is a mate in two but not possible to exhibit the mate!
Still confused?

Now With Added BA

Loughborough

Joined
04 Jul 02
Moves
3790
29 Oct 02

What's wrong with 1. Ke6... 2. g8Q # ? If it's Black to move I can't see the mate in 2. I
don't know what you mean by 'exhibit'.

Chief Justice

Center of Contention

Joined
14 Jun 02
Moves
17381
29 Oct 02

Can black castle from this position? If not, then Ke6... g8+ wins with
the pawn promotion.

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
29 Oct 02

You're on the right track.
Hint: what was black's last move?

Now With Added BA

Loughborough

Joined
04 Jul 02
Moves
3790
29 Oct 02

H

Dieren, Holland

Joined
14 Sep 02
Moves
10337
29 Oct 02

Is possible, but not the only possibility.
What if black's last move was e7e5?