Originally posted by tomtom232I'm going to look at this with my board in a little while, but ...
move order is very important in endgames 43...h4 44.Rd7 Kg8(44...h3 45.Rxf7+ Kg8 5.Rd7 and if the pawn advances then Rd1 and if any other move then white has perpetual) 45.Rd8 Kh7 drawn if 45...Kg7 to prevent this draw then 46.Nc7 followed by Ne8+ or something like 46...Rb6+ 47.Ka3 Kh7 48. Nd5! the other move being 47...Rc6 48.Ne8+ driving the king away f ...[text shortened]... y ...Nd3+s after ...Nf4 50...Rc7 51.c4 Re7 52.c5+ Ke6 53.Rh8! and white is playing for the win.
does our position really warrant more than a draw? Material is even and the position is very unclear. If it were me, I wouldn't mind the draw at all.
Your thoughts?
Originally posted by tomtom232OK ... That looks pretty convincing. h4 only draws.
move order is very important in endgames 43...h4 44.Rd7 Kg8(44...h3 45.Rxf7+ Kg8 5.Rd7 and if the pawn advances then Rd1 and if any other move then white has perpetual) 45.Rd8 Kh7 drawn if 45...Kg7 to prevent this draw then 46.Nc7 followed by Ne8+ or something like 46...Rb6+ 47.Ka3 Kh7 48. Nd5! the other move being 47...Rc6 48.Ne8+ driving the king away f ...[text shortened]... y ...Nd3+s after ...Nf4 50...Rc7 51.c4 Re7 52.c5+ Ke6 53.Rh8! and white is playing for the win.
If no one wants the draw, I guess Nf4 looks like the choice.
Thoughts?
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsWell i'm ok with a draw but I would still like to fight for the win. Half the fun is in the struggle.
I'm going to look at this with my board in a little while, but ...
does our position really warrant more than a draw? Material is even and the position is very unclear. If it were me, I wouldn't mind the draw at all.
Your thoughts?
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsYou know me, I always say fight on! If we play well we can always keep the draw in our back pockets while we strive for a win.
I'm going to look at this with my board in a little while, but ...
does our position really warrant more than a draw? Material is even and the position is very unclear. If it were me, I wouldn't mind the draw at all.
Your thoughts?
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Originally posted by vipiuI quite like rb6 too, with the threat of advancing the a pawn to win the knight and pinning the knight in place. If white moves his pawn or king to stop that we can drop our rook back to b7, protecting both our vulnerable pawnss. If our rook gets to a7 it can slide around the 7th row with the option of going up the board at some point to support our h pawn.
Rb6 ?
If black responds by rd7, I think we can play a6, giving up our f pawn (with check) in exchange for white's knight.
Originally posted by iamatigerIn that line white plays c4! after ...a6 so 43...Rb6 44.Rd7 a6 45.c4! axb5 46.cxb5! and now whites pawns are too strong to stop. lets take a step back though after 44.Rd7 sacking our f and h pawns by 44.h4 looks promising but white won't play that he'll just move his king up with 44.Kc4 a6 45.Kc5 Re6 lookin good for white and 44...Rb7 45.Nd6 Rc7+ 45.Kb3! h4 46.Ne8+ Kh7 47.a5 and the pawn is held up tactically because if ...h3 then 48.Nf6+ Kg7 49.Rg8+ Kf7 50.Rh8
I quite like rb6 too, with the threat of advancing the a pawn to win the knight and pinning the knight in place. If white moves his pawn or king to stop that we can drop our rook back to b7, protecting both our vulnerable pawnss. If our rook gets to a7 it can slide around the 7th row with the option of going up the board at some point to support our h pawn ...[text shortened]... rd7, I think we can play a6, giving up our f pawn (with check) in exchange for white's knight.
Originally posted by venciI refer you to page one where tomtom shows a pretty convincing refutation of this move.
I vote h4.
White can play Rd1 or Rd7, but in two cases Black are better.
The competition is who will succed to advance a pawn.
Black ( h - pawn ) or White ( c - pawn ) ?
Originally posted by AudreyxSophieIts all there in my post if the king is on g7 then Ne8+ ...Kf8 Nf6+ ...Ke7 etc and we lose the h pawn. 43...Nf4 just tightens our grip like a python. It prevents Rd1 and it prepares a future ...f6 which isn't quite satisfactory at the moment... basically it leaves white with nothing productive to do.
I said nothing...
Just put my king my on g7, if only the king were at g7, h4 would be good.
When we talk about ... h4, in the line TomTom has show us.
Why it can't go like
1... h4 2. Rd7 Kg8 3.Rd8+ Kg7 4. Nc7 Rb6+ 5. Ka3 h3.
If you need, just sac the rook for the knight.
Ne8 + Kh7...
Nf6 ' now take the knight, Rxf6. there is no more draw thing...
next thing, Ne1. Nf3 or nxf3 and h2 and we try to push the g-pawn, how about this ?
This is the position you are talking about.
Here, can you tell why you are playing Kf8?
What happen if, Kg8, Kh8 and Kh7. ?
Kg8 and Kh8 end with black losing the h-pawn, but is Kh7 the same case?
We are still playing a dragon, so if we have to sac material to pass our pawn, we must sac material.
being materialist is not so game.
Just a suggestion.. As, after kh7, if he go with nf6, he forces us to sac. and we won't lose the h-pawn.
I say we vote, as the analysis show by tomtom34 do conveince me., I'll show you another diagram.
I don't believe white can survive this, even if it his turn to move.
Winning is not going to be easy, but it is possible.
By searching what happen after Kh7, I discovered this. The other move were no and the knight was a big treat, so Rxf6 look like the only to keep the pawn.
So after, 1. Ne8.
.... Kh7 ! not Kf8??. 2 Nf6 + and now ... Rxf6 !! 3 gxf6 Ne1 4 Rd1 Nxf3 and now anything h2. now Rh1 is forced and the g come...still has not analysed the rest, so, if i mess up, reject this.