Originally posted by greenpawn34How does it feel when you judge other people like this? Do you enjoy the righteous anger? It must be nice to have the time, in real time to watch the match. What time zone are you in again? Sorry GP, but I think your way of saying "Why isn't this match the biggest deal going right now?" mainly gets the whiner award. Some of us will look at the games later, after work, saving up the treat.
A totally enthralling and absorbing game. (a quick draw tomorrow is on the cards).
My head hurts and my eyes ache from staring at it for the past couple of hours
spotting all the tricks.
I'm taking the postion where I think Anand had a win and show it to the
bookies to see if they will pay up. (have to check it first after a shower).
I was dis ...[text shortened]... ng the game is lost on them.
A brilliant game of chess. This has been some great match.
I can' t get the pgn viewer to work somehow...
[White "Anand"]
[Black "Topalov"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O 5. Bd3 c5 6. Nf3 d5 7. O-O cxd4 8. exd4
dxc4 9. Bxc4 b6 10. Bg5 Bb7 11. Re1 Nbd7 12. Rc1 Rc8 13. Bd3 Re8 14. Qe2 Bxc3
15. bxc3 Qc7 16. Bh4 Nh5 17. Ng5 g6 18. Nh3 e5 19. f3 Qd6 20. Bf2 exd4 21.
Qxe8+ Rxe8 22. Rxe8+ Nf8 23. cxd4 Nf6 24. Ree1 Ne6 25. Bc4 Bd5 26. Bg3 Qb4 27.
Be5 Nd7 28. a3 Qa4 29. Bxd5 Nxe5 30. Bxe6 Qxd4+ 31. Kh1 fxe6 32. Ng5 Qd6 33.
Ne4 Qxa3 34. Rc3 Qb2 35. h4 b5 36. Rc8+ Kg7 37. Rc7+ Kf8 38. Ng5 Ke8 39. Rxh7
Qc3 40. Rh8+ Kd7 41. Rh7+ Kc6 42. Re4 b4 43. Nxe6 Kb6 44. Nf4 Qa1+ 45. Kh2 a5
46. h5 gxh5 47. Rxh5 Nc6 48. Nd5+ Kb7 49. Rh7+ Ka6 50. Re6 Kb5 51. Rh5 Nd4 52.
Nb6+ Ka6 53. Rd6 Kb7 54. Nc4 Nxf3+ 55. gxf3 Qa2+ 56. Nd2 Kc7 57. Rhd5 b3 58.
Rd7+ Kc8 59. Rd8+ Kc7 60. R8d7+ Kc8 61. Rg7 a4 62. Rc5+ Kb8 63. Rd5 Kc8 64. Kg3
Qa1 65. Rg4 b2 66. Rc4+ Kb7 67. Kf2 b1=Q 68. Nxb1 Qxb1 69. Rdd4 Qa2+ 70. Kg3 a3
71. Rc3 Qa1 72. Rb4+ Ka6 73. Ra4+ Kb5 74. Rcxa3 Qg1+ 75. Kf4 Qc1+ 76. Kf5 Qc5+
77. Ke4 Qc2+ 78. Ke3 Qc1+ 79. Kf2 Qd2+ 80. Kg3 Qe1+ 81. Kf4 Qc1+ 82. Kg3 Qg1+
83. Kf4 1/2-1/2
🙂
"How does it feel when you judge other people like this?"
It feels good.
Yesterdays' shift was a 6am-2pm so had time to watch whole game.
Afterwards had blinding headache and kept seeing 'the square' in my vision
for a couple hors afterwards. Won't be doing that again in a hurry.
Makes me wonder how hard I concentrate when I do a blitz session because
I don't feel like that after a blitz night.
Of course Paul is right, people do get enjoyment from opening stuff
and to each his own. But there is a time and place for sucking in opening
moves to regurgitate them later and whilst this game was going on then was
not the right time.
My in your face opinion. - to each his own.
Mind you I noticed that after one lad posted some advice about getting the
1953 book and actually doing some work themsleves the thread quickly dried up.
Work...actually read a Chess book....where is the quick fix?
By the way. I picked up the solid hardback version of 'Chess Struggle and Practise'
(Zurich 1953) in an Oxfam shop for £8.95.
It's in a very good condition.
I got my copy in 1980 so if anybody wants this Oxfam one for £9.00 + £1.50 1st class postage
(UK only, drop me a PM. If not I'll Ebay it).
And there was this postion when the lad asked why 7.Bd3 was not a move
often played.
Some suggested 7...Ng4 backed up with all kids of nonsense.
Totally missing 8.Bd3-b5+ forcing 8...Kf8.
I wonder what the h8 Rook has to say about that.
Is it any wonder every now and then I go on a tantrum and
throw the pieces out of the pram?
Don't feel picked on, I'm actually barred from hanging around certain chess
book stalls because I won't let anyone buy an opening book. True. 🙂
And yes I deserve a whinners award. I was enjoying the game so much and
wondered why everyone else was not.
Oh Dear. Openings again and back of brown envelope advice. Bah!
Today's game.
I'm wondering if Topo will waste a White for a rest.
But there again as I followed it, understood it, and spotted the shots,
how difficult really was it for them?
Won't see today's game as this afternoon I will be giving a lecture
to 50 or so chess players in a hotel. And yes the perils of opening addiction
will be mentioned.
Haha, the guy who suggested buying the 1953 book and suggesting the indeed absurd Ng4 in that position is actually the same guy: me 😛
Although you have to admit that the idea of Ng4 is correct (and Bd3 is a wasted move), just not in that position 😛
In regard to yesterday's games, of course it's easy to fault every player because you have your 3300 ELO engine running, but try playing from one of the positions of this game with a friend and input the moves of that session in your engine 😉
Anyway, for today Anand plays a very rare variation of the classical exchange grunfeld, let's wait for the fireworks 😀
I don't use engines, Gats. Just this weary old brain. (the cheek of the fellow).
Doubt if this kit will run an engine and surf at the same time.
I'm not knocking the players at all. They are playing games for once I
can really get into. I predicted a vast number of moves and missed some
cute ones. I really thought we (me and Anand) had him with 52 Rg6 instead
of the better 52.Rd6. It stops the Nxf3+ sac which I saw coming but little else.).
I was wondering how hard it was for them if even I can follow a smattering
of what was going on.
7.Bd3 is a developing move. You have to be careful about finding major fault
with a developing move. On d3 it is not as loose as it is on c4.
In one of the mainlines this Bishop goes to c4-b3 and then captures on c4.
So there is an idea rooted here. Just go to d3 then exchange on c4 saving time.
(Infact leave it on f1 and then swap on c4 is another idea).
The ref (if there has to be one) is certainkly NOT 7...Ng4 moving bits around
twice in the opening and ending up with an uncastled King.
It does hinder d4 and makes the 0-0-0 h4-h5 plan dubious and there are more
flexible moves in the position.
So Black should 0-0 and then Ng4 is a threat and if Black is threatening
things already he has equalised and if Black has equalised in the Sicilian then
he is winning (Larsen).
(JB practically nailed it about not fitting in with Bishop swap idea).
7.Be2 stops Ng4 keeps in with Be3/Qd2 to swap the g7 Bishop.
7.f3 is better IMO if you want the 0-0-0 + h4-h5 game.
Good book rec - shame about the anlaysis. 😉
Originally posted by greenpawn34This is a nice post, and I think it demonstrates that not all opening posts are created equal.
I don't use engines, Gats. Just this weary old brain. (the cheek of the fellow).
Doubt if this kit will run an engine and surf at the same time.
I'm not knocking the players at all. They are playing games for once I
can really get into. I predicted a vast number of moves and missed some
cute ones. I really thought we (me and Anand) had him with 5 ...[text shortened]... better IMO if you want the 0-0-0 + h4-h5 game.
Good book rec - shame about the anlaysis. 😉
It's one thing for someone to ask "Somebody please tell me the best move", and another thing to ask "Why not 7. Bd3?" The latter question is a good question about the deployment of the bishop in a specific position, and the fact that it occurs in the opening is just a matter of timing and sequence.
There are lots of players on the site who aren't surviving past move 20 (the thread keeps on growing), so I think they very reasonably are paying attention to the part of the game that will dramatically improve how long they stay in the ring- they will still get knocked out, but at least they will make it to the next stage, and can start working on other things.
I was not suggesting you were using an engine or bashing the players, it's just I see a lot of bashing on different sites (mainly towards Anand) over this game which is rather harsh, those positions are impossible to play perfectly for a human. So that remark was not made towards you 😉 And thank god the people of RHP are not such bashers, although I must say the only move that really looked very bad to my patzer eyes was the infamous 40th move 40. Rh8+??, letting the king of the 8th rank really makes no sense.
I didn't do any serious analysis in that thread, just said that the bishop is misplaced on d3 because of the loose knight on d4 and the threat of Ng4 (in the fututre 😛). And than I made the (for me usual) mistake of not digging deep and making the first move that looks good 🙁. Although Ng4 is indeed not a developing move it is a common motive that also turns up in the najdorf english attack.
And the 1953 is really an awesome book, although some find Bronstein's comments a little superficial and lacking in variations, sometimes he just gives insightfull little comments that really stay with you 😀
Originally posted by greenpawn34🙂
🙂
"How does it feel when you judge other people like this?"
It feels good.
Won't see today's game as this afternoon I will be giving a lecture
to 50 or so chess players in a hotel. And yes the perils of opening addiction
will be mentioned.
Yeah, I overreacted. People at my work don't understand why all of a sudden I am really angry at the crappy internet connection, and keep rushing off to the coffeeshop every chance I can with the laptop. No cold war, no K v K, the computers are too good now, and no teenage all American boys and its like no-one cares about chess anymore in this country (US is where I am right now, chess in the Bahamas is um, small). Present company excepted of course, to the 'mericans on here, but we are on a chess site. I remember when the games were on the news though! Front page of the paper. If you google "chess" you barely get the WCC result at the bottom of the page.
Originally posted by ExumaSo do I
I remember when the games were on the news though! Front page of the paper.
http://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot.com/2010/04/when-we-were-kings-vii.html
Re: the opening question and subsequent faulty analysis.
The point is that in most (not all) cases questions like
"why not play Bd3 in this position"
don't *need* a concrete line to be given. In fact I would suggest outlining a specific sequence in response might even muddy the waters and only serve to obscure the truth.
In this case the answer is:
'because the bishop is misplaced on d3' backed up with a few abstract points to explain why.