I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that
art can be a very jealous mistress leaving virtually little room for anything else,
what think you, is it possible that spiritual fulfilment can be found in secular pursuits?
I leave you with this quotation which I inadvertently stumbled upon with a link that
was sent to me in error,
Not having an orthodox belief system to support me, and refusing to succumb to-the-
make-it-up-as-you-go-along spirituality of this our darkling and narcissistic age, I
have ever sought solace in the secular salvation of textual criticism,
remembering-with Erasmus-that unless we purify our texts we can never hope to
purify ourselves."
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou are "disturbed" by the concept of someone doing something that is not connected to religion or something that you personally consider not "spiritual"? Is that what you are saying?
I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that ...[text shortened]... se,
what think you, is it possible that spiritual fulfilment can be found in secular pursuits?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe are created with both the intelligence and emotional capacity to realize human fulfillment in all realms. We also possess an even deeper void which aches to be satisfied. Our spiritual needs our primary. If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of God. If I believe in the Risen Christ and it's just an artful falsehood, there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that
a ...[text shortened]... embering-with Erasmus-that unless we purify our texts we can never hope to
purify ourselves."[/b]
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11 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyFilling a void with an "artful falsehood", far from being a situation in which one has "nothing to lose", seems to me to have a high price in terms of intellectual and spiritual integrity.
"There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of God. If I believe in the Risen Christ and it's just an artful falsehood, there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
- Joined
- 16 Jan 07
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11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieas an ex-artist i can understand your sentiment that art can become all consuming................but only to people who are prone to it. you only get your religion 'buzz' because thats what your into, its your thing. the fact that people can get equal enjoyment from a myriad of other pursuits is a giant clue that there is nothing special about religion.
I heard this phrase while listening to radio 4, the meaning is of course that there are
Christians who are Christians in some sense but who find spiritual fulfilment, not so
much in the application of Christianity as they perceive it, but in other pursuits, for
example art or music. I myself find the concept rather disturbing, for I know that ...[text shortened]... embering-with Erasmus-that unless we purify our texts we can never hope to
purify ourselves."
- Joined
- 16 Jan 07
- Moves
- 95105
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyi have no hole in my heart, or any spiritual needs, or an itch i cannot scratch (well maybe sometimes, but mrs spalfie takes care of that, not god).
We are created with both the intelligence and emotional capacity to realize human fulfillment in all realms. We also possess an even deeper void which aches to be satisfied. Our spiritual needs our primary. If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of Go ...[text shortened]... , there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
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Originally posted by stellspalfieI think pursuits driven by the human spirit, even if they consume much of one's time and energy, can be entirely rewarding and moral, as long as one does no harm to others, deceives no one, and coerces no one, and especially if 'the artist' touches other people with the fruits of their pursuits in ways that help those others (and themselves) to understand or gain insights into the human condition and our inter-connectedness.
as an ex-artist i can understand your sentiment that art can become all consuming................but only to people who are prone to it. you only get your religion 'buzz' because thats what your into, its your thing. the fact that people can get equal enjoyment from a myriad of other pursuits is a giant clue that there is nothing special about religion.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by FMF"If Christ is not who and what He said he was (is)..." may provide a more nearly accurate paraphrase.
Filling a void with an "artful falsehood", far from being a situation in which one has "nothing to lose", seems to me to have a high price in terms of intellectual and spiritual integrity.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThis is only of concern to you and other Christians. You have dodged the question of the profound dishonesty in claiming that filling one's life with an "artful falsehood" involves having "nothing to lose".
"If Christ is not who and what He said he was (is)..." may provide a more nearly accurate paraphrase.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieI don't think so, in fact, it appears to me that such 'fulfillment', is nothing but a fleeting
as an ex-artist i can understand your sentiment that art can become all consuming................but only to people who are prone to it. you only get your religion 'buzz' because thats what your into, its your thing. the fact that people can get equal enjoyment from a myriad of other pursuits is a giant clue that there is nothing special about religion.
and transient glimpse, as GB stated, we have much deeper spiritual needs that art and
music simply cannot fulfill.
11 Dec 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIf ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed,
We are created with both the intelligence and emotional capacity to realize human fulfillment in all realms. We also possess an even deeper void which aches to be satisfied. Our spiritual needs our primary. If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed. "There's a hole in the heart of man in the shape of Go , there is nothing to lose. If true, then I have everything to gain." -Pascal (1623-1662)
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indeed this is the clincher, how many artists have found that fame and fortune were not
all that they purported to be and that such 'compensation', is simply not enough.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you don't get fulfillment from it robbie perhaps you should fill your personal void with some sort of off-the-shelf religionist dogma, as indeed you apparently already have.
I don't think so, in fact, it appears to me that such 'fulfillment', is nothing but a fleeting
and transient glimpse, as GB stated, we have much deeper spiritual needs that art and
music simply cannot fulfill.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed
Will not "succeed" in what way?
indeed this is the clincher, how many artists have found that fame and fortune were not all that they purported to be and that such 'compensation', is simply not enough.
Oh, so your OP was about "fame and fortune" and not ordinary people applying their human spirit to artistic pursuits? Your OP is about whether or not some, any or all celebrities are happy? Is that right?
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieVincent comes to mind.
If ignored, any and all efforts to compensate fulfillment in other pursuits will not succeed,
indeed this is the clincher, how many artists have found that fame and fortune were not
all that they purported to be and that such 'compensation', is simply not enough.
11 Dec 12
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyrobbies' OP said nothing at all about fulfillment [or whether or not one can seen to "succeed"] being measured in terms of "fame and fortune". Now in his latest post he is talking about "fame and fortune" as "compensation", something totally different from the spiritual/secular pursuits as framed in the OP. It would seem the Goalposts have been moved.
Vincent comes to mind.