You guys sure mention Democracy a lot, like it is candy.

@averagejoe1 said
Well, yes. They should have factored. You once said the govt should have safety net, which made me gag. Better, a guy starting a family sets aside money for a rainy day, he saves, he invests, he always has his family covered. Today, there are 11M jobs available, almost 2 jobs per persons not employed. So as you preach pandemic gloom, this is a great opportunity to get caught back up ......assuming a guy didnt have more kids than he could afford.

One of the reasons jobs are available is because people who want to work can't afford child care.

The right wing solution? .................................................................................................................................

@no1marauder said
Yes "losers" who want to work but are constrained by child care costs would get tax credits and/or subsidies so they could do so. The average cost of child care is now over $14000 a year, well over what many working and middle class families could afford even working full time.

You want people to work, don't you?

You want us to be a safety net, don't you?
My son works and does not use govt funds. He is logical, and has common sense. He gets no funds.
Your wards are not so responsible, so you want my son to stop what he is doing and build a net out in the govt's ward's back yard for him to clamor into. Maybe get pregnant in the net.
My son, he gets no funds. Does this sound rational? How about logical?
No links or college lectures, please 😳 🤔 😵 🙄

@averagejoe1 said
You want us to be a safety net, don't you?
My son works and does not use govt funds. He is logical, and has common sense. He gets no funds.
Your wards are not so responsible, so you want my son to stop what he is doing and build a net out in the govt's ward's back yard for him to clamor into. Maybe get pregnant in the net.
My son, he gets no funds. Does this sound rational? How about logical?
No links or college lectures, please 😳 🤔 😵 🙄

I'm tired of your BS. 44% of workers in the US work in low paid jobs with a median salary of $18,000; how do you expect them to save enough to afford $14,000 in child care costs a year?

And here's a link, Mott: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-2019-almost-half-of-all-americans-work-in-low-wage-jobs/

@no1marauder said
One of the reasons jobs are available is because people who want to work can't afford child care.

The right wing solution? .................................................................................................................................

It's the OTHER reasons that worry hell out of me. They are losers ( I know, I know, you dont like that) and are feeling pretty good about their dependent status in life, they know that in this country, they will not go hungry, and as you said on another post, the govt will cover costs of kids. What's not to like.
So, where am I going with this? There can be no solution. The lack of a work force, starting with no truckers=bottled-up supply chain, and nurses, and everyone else who is laying up sorry (the losers who should be our work force) are going to sink the economy, as it grinds to a halt.
But WAIT! The rich! Their net worth can save us. I don't' know if they can or not, but what a laugh. You will crawl on your hands and knees to the rich and beg those SOBs to save us all. Ironic. The worm turns.

And Marauder, there are a LOT of reasons jobs are available...not just not being able to afford child care. Why can't they? Poor planning?

@averagejoe1 said
It's the OTHER reasons that worry hell out of me. They are losers ( I know, I know, you dont like that) and are feeling pretty good about their dependent status in life, they know that in this country, they will not go hungry, and as you said on another post, the govt will cover costs of kids. What's not to like.
So, where am I going with this? There can be no solut ...[text shortened]... jobs are available...not just not being able to afford child care. Why can't they? Poor planning?

As I said, no solutions, just a wish to make other people's lives as miserable as possible.

And an anger and hatred that most Americans don't agree with your misanthropic inclinations.

@no1marauder said
I'm tired of your BS. 44% of workers in the US work in low paid jobs with a median salary of $18,000; how do you expect them to save enough to afford $14,000 in child care costs a year?

And here's a link, Mott: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-2019-almost-half-of-all-americans-work-in-low-wage-jobs/

$18,000 is a far cry from the median USA income per family is $67,450.00. Seems we have some confusion here.
Maybe the guy who makes 18K will move up (I assume he is in his late teens, early 20s) to higher paying jobs, and when he can afford it, get married, and when he can afford kids, maybe at the $67K level, have kids. If he does NOT move up, I think the govt should think long and hard about supporting him.
Do not any of the 44% ever move up? What the hell is going on? I had to borrow $5o for a Uhaul to move to my first job. Then, I followed the formula above. Timed my family life. Now you want me, above, to stop everything and "Expect them to........." what?

You want me to Build that net? And really, how can you say, in the $18K phrase as if that is the end all? Some folks are quite happy in those jobs. Hell, I envy them sometimes, a beer and some pool after work, not a care. That is, unless they create some things to have to care about. Their choice, don't you think ?

No, I do not think a guy at $18K can save for $14K in childcare.

@averagejoe1 said
$18,000 is a far cry from the median USA income per family is $67,450.00. Seems we have some confusion here.
Maybe the guy who makes 18K will move up (I assume he is in his late teens, early 20s) to higher paying jobs, and when he can afford it, get married, and when he can afford kids, maybe at the $67K level, have kids. If he does NOT move up, I think the govt ...[text shortened]... ir choice, don't you think ?

No, I do not think a guy at $18K can save for $14K in childcare.

If you read the article, you'd know that it isn't just young people in those jobs.

Your choice is severely impeded in this country by many factors. Giving hard working Americans some financial relief so they can have their children cared for while they try to "move up" is an investment, one that will almost certainly pay off in the aggregate. It's little different from loans and grants so working class kids can afford college.

@no1marauder said
I'm tired of your BS. 44% of workers in the US work in low paid jobs with a median salary of $18,000; how do you expect them to save enough to afford $14,000 in child care costs a year?

And here's a link, Mott: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-2019-almost-half-of-all-americans-work-in-low-wage-jobs/

Obviously not every job is made for people to support families. There are summer jobs, second jobs, jobs for kids in high school and other jobs that give spending money. If you want to be the sole provider for your children, you need to take advantage of our free public schools, and our free libraries and get an education so you can do something more productive.

@quackquack said
Obviously not every job is made for people to support families. There are summer jobs, second jobs, jobs for kids in high school and other jobs that give spending money. If you want to be the sole provider for your children, you need to take advantage of our free public schools, and our free libraries and get an education so you can do something more productive.

From the article that you obviously didn't bother to read:

"Most of the 53 million Americans working in low-wage jobs are adults in their prime working years, or between about 25 to 54, they noted."

Public schools are generally only "free" up to high school and a HS diploma will hardly provide you with a sufficient education for hardly any well paying jobs.

@no1marauder said
As I said, no solutions, just a wish to make other people's lives as miserable as possible.

And an anger and hatred that most Americans don't agree with your misanthropic inclinations.

So, you seem to think that is MY (my being the citizens) wish to make other people's lives miserable. What in the hell? If I live next door to you with one child, and you have 4 that you cannot afford, do you think that I wish to make your life miserable?? This analogy needs no further elaboration. Could you respond to this? I mean, what else could you be saying?

@averagejoe1 said
So, you seem to think that is My (my being the citizens'😉 wish to make other people's lives miserable. What in the hell? If I live next door to you with one child, and you have 4 that you cannot afford, do you think that I wish to make your life miserable?? This analogy no further elaboration. Could you respond to this? I mean, what else could you be saying?

I already said it.

Yes, you want to make other people's lives miserable when their and their children's lives could be improved by a rather simple government investment which would be cost effective in providing societal benefits in the long run. All because of your misanthropic belief that the majority of your fellow citizens are lazy, worthless "losers".

@no1marauder said
No they don't. The "richest people" get away with paying much lower taxes than the average American. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-time-history-us-billionaires-paid-lower-tax-rate-than-working-class-last-year/

And corporate subsidies (and 10% own more than 80% of corporate stock) are far more than traditional social welfare programs. https://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-vs-social-welfare/

Percentages are literally meaningless. Rich people pay more taxes in absolute dollars and that literally is the only thing that counts. 30% or 20% of millions is a lot more than some welfare recipient ever pays.

@no1marauder said
If you read the article, you'd know that it isn't just young people in those jobs.

Your choice is severely impeded in this country by many factors. Giving hard working Americans some financial relief so they can have their children cared for while they try to "move up" is an investment, one that will almost certainly pay off in the aggregate. It's little different from loans and grants so working class kids can afford college.

So there are old people in those jobs. I guess room for another thread, why would a guy who has been working for 30-40 years be in such a job?
I think we could be friends, I have many liberal friends. (mainly trial lawyers!) They, like you, think government is the answer. That is the chasm, and I know it can never be crossed by either of us. We are just jousting here. I am speaking more of concepts, than of the greedy ole personal AvJoe. It is just so foreign to consider all of this mob stuff, and all of this one-happy-family stuff, and the 'to each according to his needs stuff', when the guy in need has made his own selfish bed and looking for a handout, ,which you nicely call a safety net. I am building such a net, but it is for my grandchildren, There are may libs who think that at my death, that my assets should go to 'the State'. brrrrrrrrr. Really creepy stuff. And the payoff in the aggregate sounds well and good, but you are speaking Utopia in a land run by radicals. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. It simply would not even be close to 'almost certainly'. Anyway, I am going to get a bourbon. Cheers for today.

@quackquack said
Percentages are literally meaningless. Rich people pay more taxes in absolute dollars and that literally is the only thing that counts. 30% or 20% of millions is a lot more than some welfare recipient ever pays.

Is there anywhere in the world that shares your bizarre belief that "percentages mean nothing" in setting tax rates (which are percentages of course)?

@no1marauder said
From the article that you obviously didn't bother to read:

"Most of the 53 million Americans working in low-wage jobs are adults in their prime working years, or between about 25 to 54, they noted."

Public schools are generally only "free" up to high school and a HS diploma will hardly provide you with a sufficient education for hardly any well paying jobs.

I am glad I saved time reading trash. If you want to support a family and need child care make sure you get skills that allow you to be paid more than $18,000. Your idea that we should pay $14,000 of child care so someone can work a $18,000 job is a complete waste of resources and even, understanding your desire to help the disadvantages, I find it difficult to believe you think it is money well spent.