The Democracy/Republic debate in a nutshell

In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participate in a representational political system. What more do you want, for chrissakes?? Are you aware that in a pure Democracy, that the voting majority has almost limitless power over the minority?? If Trump wins in 2024, would you like to be on the wrong end of that stick?!?!?
Can you comment your position so that we can put this to bed, a level playing field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

@averagejoe1 said
In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participat ...[text shortened]... aying field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

A democratic republic is a type of democracy.

Check the paperwork. Is it "We the people" or "we the elected representatives"?

@wildgrass said
A democratic republic is a type of democracy.

Check the paperwork. Is it "We the people" or "we the elected representatives"?

Hang with me, Marauder. Oh, it's wildgrass. My bad.
The word Democracy does not appear in the Constitution. But, but, a "Republican form of government' does. Check with Marauder, He and I have a bit of Con law experience: He will not, though he would like to , deny it.

So, go to parsing. Oh, looks like you already have...You write about we the people and we the elected representatives. But you do not write about the title of this thread.
Ha! You are a perfect opening act, like in the rock concerts!

@averagejoe1 said
In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participat ...[text shortened]... aying field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

What you want isn't a system where the rights of the minority are respected, but a system where the minority can defeat the policy preferences of the majority.

@no1marauder said
What you want isn't a system where the rights of the minority are respected, but a system where the minority can defeat the policy preferences of the majority.

Classic, Marauder, classic.
But you could humor us, mainly for Sonhouse, et al, if you would re-write that last clause in your post. It almost has a between-the-lines double negative in it.
OR, OR, you are saying that if 50.00001% of a group put their wishes on the table, that the minority (the remaining 49.99990%, being a minority) can defeat those wishes, those preferences? If so, tell us how they could do that?

@AverageJoe1
"The rights of the minority are respected". Maybe you could tell us how that is happening, other than letting them be in the room?

@averagejoe1 said
Classic, Marauder, classic.
But you could humor us, mainly for Sonhouse, et al, if you would re-write that last clause in your post. It almost has a between-the-lines double negative in it.
OR, OR, you are saying that if 50.00001% of a group put their wishes on the table, that the minority (the remaining 49.99990%, being a minority) can defeat those wishes, those preferences? If so, tell us how they could do that?

Take the US Senate (Please!).

The Framers in the Constitution provided that it would pass laws by majority vote.

But an extramajority requirement has been imposed on it thus defeating the Framers' intention.

@no1marauder said
Take the US Senate (Please!).

The Framers in the Constitution provided that it would pass laws by majority vote.

But an extramajority requirement has been imposed on it thus defeating the Framers' intention.

Which is why the smallest of states has the exact same representation as the largest state in the Senate.

@AverageJoe1
Try more like 65% on OUR side and 35% on YOUR side.

Nice try buddy.

@Eladar
Right. Totally ignoring what he said. Nice.

@sonhouse said
@Eladar
Right. Totally ignoring what he said. Nice.

Are you really that stupid? I guess so.

@averagejoe1 said
In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participat ...[text shortened]... aying field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

All democracies have mechanisms built in to protect minorities.
For example: signing up to the UN charter on human rights, a constitution, just plain anti-dicrimination laws, etc.

A constitution is nothing but an extra layer of law. And as you see by gun rights, it can get outdated. So even constitutions can be changed.
The original US constitution did not, for example, protect all minorities. The current US constitution obviously fails in protecting various minorities as well.

Checks and balances, work groups to amend matters and a seperation of powers are reasonable ways to protect minorities and keep the powerful in check as well.

As for the US being a republic. It is a version of democracy. I know some people try to contradict this (obviously not knowing what the definition of democracy is), but they are generally the same people who think socialism is the same as fascism. Which, obviously, it is not.

@eladar said
Which is why the smallest of states has the exact same representation as the largest state in the Senate.

There definately is something to be said for one layer of government being equally represented without taking population size into account.

There’s a lot of negatives about it as well, though.

How do you justify California having 2 senators and wyoming haveing 2 senators as well?
What are the positive effects? What are the negative effects?

@averagejoe1 said
In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participat ...[text shortened]... aying field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

There is no "level playing field" no matter how badly you want it... now. You guys are just going to have to pay for your abdication of principle in following a tyrant-child. Give up your wet-dream of seeing that corrupt demagogue back in the Oval Office, and maybe we can talk... maybe.

@eladar said
Are you really that stupid? I guess so.

Oh, the irony.