The Democracy/Republic debate in a nutshell

@no1marauder said
Take the US Senate (Please!).

The Framers in the Constitution provided that it would pass laws by majority vote.

But an extramajority requirement has been imposed on it thus defeating the Framers' intention.

So given your reference to majority vote…. Simple question, you then believe that all votes should be carried by 51%?
This is Mob Rule, Marauder. You are not alone, Suzuanne wants to do away with the electoral college.!

@averagejoe1 said
So given your reference to majority vote…. Simple question, you then believe that all votes should be carried by 51%?
This is Mob Rule, Marauder. You are not alone, Suzuanne wants to do away with the electoral college.!

Of course I do. It's severely past its prime.

They couldn't even perform their primary function of keeping demagogues out of office.

It's done, there is no reason it needs to stay.

Direct voting. One person, one vote. Representation in Congress was never meant to vote for us. I want and expect my vote to count. In my lifetime, my vote for President has only counted twice. Once for Bill Clinton and once for Biden. My votes for Obama in 2008 and 2012 were eliminated by the Electoral College vote in Arizona going Republican, so my vote those years did not count (not to mention all the years Republicans won). The Electoral College vote should not directly supplant my vote for President.

@averagejoe1 said
So given your reference to majority vote…. Simple question, you then believe that all votes should be carried by 51%?
This is Mob Rule, Marauder. You are not alone, Suzuanne wants to do away with the electoral college.!

The Electoral College vote IS mob rule, dimwit.

@averagejoe1 said
Classic, Marauder, classic.
But you could humor us, mainly for Sonhouse, et al, if you would re-write that last clause in your post. It almost has a between-the-lines double negative in it.
OR, OR, you are saying that if 50.00001% of a group put their wishes on the table, that the minority (the remaining 49.99990%, being a minority) can defeat those wishes, those preferences? If so, tell us how they could do that?

the republicans in the senate represent less americans than the democrats. Whenever a democratic proposal gets demolished or not even put up to a vote, that's a minority of americans overriding the wishes of the majority.

@zahlanzi said
the republicans in the senate represent less americans than the democrats. Whenever a democratic proposal gets demolished or not even put up to a vote, that's a minority of americans overriding the wishes of the majority.

Your comment omits several procedural factors which do, or do not, allow the said proposal to get to a vote, or not to get to a vote.
So this comment is meaningless.
Unless, of course, you think the Senate procedures should be changed.. You know, Suzianne is wanting to change a lot of things too. Maybe you 2 are on to something, you seem to be very studied on the way things run in DC.

@averagejoe1 said
In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participat ...[text shortened]... aying field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

Minorities? Do you mean like LGBTQ people and ethnic minorities or do you mean powerful lobbying groups like religions and corporations?

@averagejoe1 said
Classic, Marauder, classic.
But you could humor us, mainly for Sonhouse, et al, if you would re-write that last clause in your post. It almost has a between-the-lines double negative in it.
OR, OR, you are saying that if 50.00001% of a group put their wishes on the table, that the minority (the remaining 49.99990%, being a minority) can defeat those wishes, those preferences? If so, tell us how they could do that?

Well if the minority opinion holders all live in the least populated states yes they can constantly thwart the will of a clear majority in the US version of a ‘democratic republic’.
In fact the minority might even get a hold of the judicial arbiters of a constitution and restrict the fundamental rights of the majority in terms of jurisdiction over their own bodies and parental status.

@averagejoe1 said
In a pure Democracy, laws are made directly by the majority, leaving the rights of the minority unprotected.
In a Republic, which we are, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people,, and they MUST comply with a constitution which protects the rights of the minority from the will of the majority.
Sonhouse, in both, the citizens are empowered to participat ...[text shortened]... aying field, so we dont have to go through the constant haranguing? IS this correct, or is it not?

In a pure democracy, there would be no gerrymandering or re-districting or other forms of voter suppression.

Besides, your definition of a democracy is reflective of an ideological simpleton.
There's that term again, it always seems to come back to you. 😛

@suzianne said
The Electoral College vote IS mob rule, dimwit.

It is not. It is composed of representatives, so by definition, it cannot possibly be 'a mob', because the reps have got to enact the will of their constituents, not enact their own personal will.
I think what you would like is a voting majority with an unlimited power to make laws. I think Marauder is of this bent. That is a Democracy. Minorities would have no say. In a Republic, the individual citizens have the power.
IN a democracy, the majority can simply override Rights. But the Constitution protects the rights of all the people From The Will of The Majority.

@sonhouse said
@AverageJoe1
Try more like 65% on OUR side and 35% on YOUR side.

Nice try buddy.

You are WAY off the issue, Shouse. This is a general discussion of the differences, why do you want to talk about percentages in a general debate, as percentages are noon-existent to the issue. Feed the chickens, maybe?

@AverageJoe1
Then where is all this fraud? Results are checked twice but republicans want to sow doubt in the electoral system itself and so now involved deeply in the coming coup attempt yet again.

Checked by Repubs as well as Dems but THAT doesn't sow doubt so off we go to the electoral CIRCUS.

@kevcvs57 said
Minorities? Do you mean like LGBTQ people and ethnic minorities or do you mean powerful lobbying groups like religions and corporations?

Glad you asked,.... you and several other vapors need to know, that, when minorities are mentioned, they are the people (regardless political or other affiliations)who have fewer supporters on one side of a position than do the people who are supporting the Other side of a position. (known as majority).
No problem, I love to be asked questions, I answer them, unlike most all libs on this channel.

@mghrn55 said
In a pure democracy, there would be no gerrymandering or re-districting or other forms of voter suppression.

Besides, your definition of a democracy is reflective of an ideological simpleton.
There's that term again, it always seems to come back to you. 😛

Ha, a lib preaching to a conservative about 'idealogical'. Go ahead, MGM, tell us your definition, as you say mine is wrong.
(cultural liberalism, civil libertarianism, feminism, immigration reform, women's reproductive rights, and Oh Yeah,,,,,with a tip of the hat to Suzianne, Electoral College reform!!!!!) All ideology, according to Wiki,,,,,I just report the news, it could be wrong....maybe they are speaking of Conservatives! Yeah, right.