09 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by sh76When was the beginning of time? What was before that?
Yes, there are many things the human mind is simply incapable of comprehending, including:
1) When was the origin of matter? If there was no begining, what does that mean? If there was a begining, what was before that? Where did the original matter come from? Energy? Fine. Where did the energy come from?
2) When was the begining of time? What was before t atheism. If we can't explain or understand these things, how can we be sure there's no God?
To ask what was “before” time is a nonsensical question. As such, there is no sensible answer. (I realize that such questions may stretch the capacity of our language, but—as Wittgenstein pointed out—it is “bewitchment” by our own language that gives rise to a lot of philosophical pseudo-problems.)
What is beyond the outer limits of space? If there are no such limits, what does that mean?
If it makes sense to speak of a “totality” at all (and I think it does), then—by definition—the totality has no edge or boundary.
If space/time (dimensionality in general) are aspects of that totality, then there is nothing “beyond” or “before”. And that “nothing” means absolute nihil, not a “queer kind of something” (G.E. Moore) that we can speculate about—e.g., empty space.
I think that people have difficulty thinking about “the totality that has no edge”, and therefore want to press beyond that. But that “pressing beyond” is really a collapse back into comfortable categories that have ready analogies within the totality.
If your headache is not too bad, you might try wrapping your head around that notion of totality. 🙂
09 Jul 09
How is his question nonsensical? Our understanding of time is extremely limited. Most think of it as something that exists but doesn't, as if it's not something that is tangible.
But didn't Albert Einstein prove that time is not the universal constant, but rather light is? Why is it that time slows down for any subject traveling at speeds, and the faster you go the more extreme the phenominon?
Where did matter come from? It was just always there? Take the total sum of all matter in the universe (which would obviously be an uncomprehensable amount of matter). Why did that amount just happen to always exist and not less or more? I could go on all day.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperAgreed. I just wonder if some reject God based upon concepts that we cannot peice together?
For many things the problem IS a point of reference, I totally agree. But I also think it goes beyond that. Going back to my analogy, a monkey can be given all the same references but it NEVER grasp certain concepts that are even simple for a human child.
Without a doubt some things are just over our head. It would be amazing to know what those things are. But then if you did you wouldn't be human.
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by whodeyA message from a Friend:
This is obsurd simply because we have much evidence that conflicts with the notion that the holocaust never happened or the revelution never happened. However, where is the evidecne against God? I would even throw global warming in the mix. There are conflicting scientific views on the matter yet many children are indoctrinated only to one view. Really, i ...[text shortened]... any question the holocaust so long as they give both sides and let them decide for themselves.
"Actually, what is not generally known is that God was pretty busy about the time our Universe was created and so he subcontracted the job. This fact was personally revealed to myself and my followers in a dream (about the time we coincidentally realized that there were far more contractors around now than their used to be).
We demand that The Creator as Subcontractor to the Almighty is a viable alternative explanation and needs to be taught in schools alongside all other "theories".
As whodey has pointed out, there is absolutely no evidence against our point of view."
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by whodeypower-hungry? I think you're being too paranoid. There is no reason to believe such thing.
Its about Obama being a power hungry statst. All those who interfere in this pursuit, including christians or patriots, will be dealt with accordingly.
Do you have any example of this? were christians and patriots silenced by Obama's secret police?
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by sh76Why do you think it's necessary to be "sure" no god exists? You just have to be sure that speculating about its hypothetical properties is useless, and I sure am.
Yes, there are many things the human mind is simply incapable of comprehending, including:
1) When was the origin of matter? If there was no begining, what does that mean? If there was a begining, what was before that? Where did the original matter come from? Energy? Fine. Where did the energy come from?
2) When was the begining of time? What was before t ...[text shortened]... atheism. If we can't explain or understand these things, how can we be sure there's no God?
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by generalissimoNot power hungry enough for ya? Just wait until they micro manage your energy expenditures. Wait until they micro manage your health care. Of course, it never ends. After they have conquered these it will be onto something else but by then, who can fight them? In fact, we have become such docile slaves up until this point, who can fight them now?
power-hungry? I think you're being too paranoid. There is no reason to believe such thing.
Do you have any example of this? were christians and patriots silenced by Obama's secret police?
09 Jul 09
Originally posted by whodeyObama may have socialist policies, but that doesn't mean he's power-hungry. Its not like he's doing what chavez did.
Not power hungry enough for ya? Just wait until they micro manage your energy expenditures. Wait until they micro manage your health care. Of course, it never ends. After they have conquered these it will be onto something else but by then, who can fight them? In fact, we have become such docile slaves up until this point, who can fight them now?
Of course, it never ends. After they have conquered these it will be onto something else
slippery slope?
In fact, we have become such docile slaves up until this point, who can fight them now?
what about the GOP? aren't there any conservatives anymore?
You sound very desperate, for no reason. Politics change all the time, nothing is forever, not even Obama.
There's no need to blindly follow loons like glen back.
09 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by generalissimoYeah, we kind of got off topic after I completely debunked the entire thread.
I think we're missing the point of the thread.
This wasn't supposed to become a thread about God.
It was about Obama not being a christian and being non-patriotic.
Woohoo Faux Rage!
And to add irony to the mix I will use Faux News to dispell Faux Rage.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/07/pentagon-denies-god-country-family-fesitval-fly-request/
Air Force Denies Request for Flyover at Christian Festival
A defense department official told FOX News the Air Force denied the request because it violates a Pentagon policy
Snip
A defense department official told FOX News the Air Force denied the request because it violates a Pentagon policy against supporting any event "that provides a selective benefit to any individual, group, or organization, including any religious or sectarian organization, ideological movement, political campaign or organization, or commercial enterprise, to include a shopping mall or motion picture promotion."
The Air Force was in charge of the decision-making process, meaning neither the secretary of defense nor President Obama weighed in directly, the official said.
And although the Air Force wouldn't dispute the festival board's claim of longtime military participation, the military doesn't keep records on this type of event, the official told FOX News.
Capt. Tom Wenz from Air Force public affairs told FOX News that past participation was due to the fact that the event was described only as a "patriotic tribute," and the Air Force wasn't aware until now of