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NY the least-free state in the US

NY the least-free state in the US

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no1marauder
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Originally posted by KazetNagorra
In what sense do cutting funding for schools and health care improve its quality? I'm curious.

[b]Are you willing to argue that New York has the best schools?


No, but I'm willing to argue that Northern European schools are better than US schools.[/b]
I'm curious; by what measure can you state Northern European schools are "better" than US schools?

K

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Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm curious; by what measure can you state Northern European schools are "better" than US schools?
PISA, for example.

no1marauder
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Originally posted by KazetNagorra
PISA, for example.
PISA doesn't measure what schools are "better". And the program is not without critics:

In his epilogue, Hopmann notes PISA’s underlying assumptions:

The assumption that what PISA measures is somehow im- portant knowledge for the future. There is no research available which proves this assertion. . . .

The assumption that the economic future is dependent on the knowledge base monitored by PISA: [it] relies on strong and unproven arguments, which have no basis when, for instance, comparing success in PISA’s predeces- sors and later economic development.

The assumption that PISA measures what is learned in schools: this is not [even] PISA’s own starting point, which is not to use national curricula as a point of reference.

The assumption that PISA measures competitiveness of schooling (most of the variance in PISA is attributable to background factors).

The assumption that PISA thus measures. . . school structures, teacher quality, the curriculum, etc.

In short: PISA relies on strong assumptions based on weak data.

http://norberto.bottani.free.fr/spip/spip.php?article257

K

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Originally posted by no1marauder
PISA doesn't measure what schools are "better". And the program is not without critics:

In his epilogue, Hopmann notes PISA’s underlying assumptions:

The assumption that what PISA measures is somehow im- portant knowledge for the future. There is no research available which proves this assertion. . . .

The assumption that the econom ...[text shortened]... sumptions based on weak data.


http://norberto.bottani.free.fr/spip/spip.php?article257[/b]
I don't know enough about PISA's methods to comment, but do you know any better method?

no1marauder
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Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I don't know enough about PISA's methods to comment, but do you know any better method?
No. In general, I'm skeptical about grading schools based on standardized tests though.

K

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Originally posted by no1marauder
No. In general, I'm skeptical about grading schools based on standardized tests though.
What do you suggest to compare education quality?

no1marauder
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Originally posted by KazetNagorra
What do you suggest to compare education quality?
Number of NCAA basketball championships?

You tell me. You're the one who said one group of countries' schools were "better" than the US'.

n

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Originally posted by KazetNagorra
"Logically responsible"? What does that even mean?
Parents are those biologically responsible for children. There isn't a culture or society on Earth that doesn't at least superficially hold parents responsible for providing the necessities of life.

Of course you may be advocating the system in Ayn Rand's Anthem?

n

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Originally posted by no1marauder
Non sequitur. I was responding to your claim that "taxes are theft" which is ridiculous. I never said you have to "accept what ever levels [of taxes] are imposed"; in fact, I specifically said you can use the democratic process like anybody else.

Let's get serious.
We are debating that excessive taxation limits or diminishes liberty. Taxes can and are theft, although some taxation is clearly required to fund government.

On criteria which makes a tax theft, is when it is a direct transfer from a producer to a consumer.

Check the original understanding of the "general welfare" clause.

Part of the democratic process is:
1. Leaving the jurisdiction with excessive taxation.
2. Avoiding the activity taxed.
3. Voting the bums out.
4. Taking up arms, the reason for the 2nd amendment.

no1marauder
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Originally posted by normbenign
We are debating that excessive taxation limits or diminishes liberty. Taxes can and are theft, although some taxation is clearly required to fund government.

On criteria which makes a tax theft, is when it is a direct transfer from a producer to a consumer.

Check the original understanding of the "general welfare" clause.

Part of the democratic ...[text shortened]... activity taxed.
3. Voting the bums out.
4. Taking up arms, the reason for the 2nd amendment.
That's a pretty humorous definition of "theft". Can't seem to find it in Merriam-Webster.

Taking up arms to avoid taxation was disfavored by the Framers. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/whiskey_rebellion.htm

n

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Originally posted by FMF
He is deadly serious. As he was when he said that Obama and the Nazis were kindred spirits.

Originally posted by normbenign
[b]Government is necessary, but a lot of it we have isn't.


Isn't this where democracy comes in? The only viable decision making mechanism we have at our disposal. Ancestor worship, in the form of second guessing the "inten ...[text shortened]... omparable with fundamentalist Islam or Christianity - is surely no kind of mechanism at all?[/b]
"Isn't this where democracy comes in?"

Democracy in its purest is a tyranny of 51%. It is two wolves and a sheep voting on "what's for dinner"?

The US government is a Constitutional republic, the Constitution setting the limitations of when and how democracy is used. It isn't ancestor worship but a written law, which protects people against the temporary and silly notions of the moment. That written law has within it the methods of deliberately altering it.

This vision and collection of law is largely responsible for most of the prosperity which Marxists and social liberals want to squander on unsustainable egalitarianism. NY, and nations relying on excessive taxation of producers eventually find that "Atlas Shrugs". The producers tire of being blamed for the condition of the non producers and tire of their productivity being squandered, and they find their own Gault's Gulch.

n

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Originally posted by no1marauder
That's a pretty humorous definition of "theft". Can't seem to find it in Merriam-Webster.
When you take what's mine by force, and give it directly to someone else, what the hell is it?

If you believe it isn't then give me your credit card number and I can see that a lot of needy people get what you own.

Theft is a moral as well as a legal term. That people have voted to use the government to steal for them, doesn't make it moral.

K

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Originally posted by normbenign
Parents are those biologically responsible for children. There isn't a culture or society on Earth that doesn't at least superficially hold parents responsible for providing the necessities of life.

Of course you may be advocating the system in Ayn Rand's Anthem?
Parents should be at least partially responsible for their children, but logic has nothing to do with that.

Obvisouly you think there is some gain in a society when a part of the population is denied education and health care in return for the Hummers of the wealthy. Is that what you mean when you say "freedom"?

no1marauder
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Originally posted by normbenign
"Isn't this where democracy comes in?"

Democracy in its purest is a tyranny of 51%. It is two wolves and a sheep voting on "what's for dinner"?

The US government is a Constitutional republic, the Constitution setting the limitations of when and how democracy is used. It isn't ancestor worship but a written law, which protects people against the ...[text shortened]... nd tire of their productivity being squandered, and they find their own Gault's Gulch.
"Producers" like the banks and investment firms that "produced" $63 trillion worth of mortgage backed securities?

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Originally posted by normbenign
When you take what's mine by force, and give it directly to someone else, what the hell is it?
If you do it, it's theft.

If, by consensus, society does it, then it's called civilization.

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