16 Mar 15
1 edit
Originally posted by sh76Pollard isn't actually eligible for parole until November 2015. His "patriotic Israeli" shtick is a bit hard to swallow since he was paid for the secrets he divulged. There has been a long campaign for him to be granted clemency from the usual Zionist suspects ( Netanyahu, Dershowitz, various Neo-cons, etc. etc. etc.) but so far all Presidents have declined to do so. It takes considerable chutzpah for the government of a country to publicly complain one of their paid spies got too harsh a sentence from a country they spied on, but Israel has done so regarding Pollard for about 20 years.
Very few American Jews that I know of endorse Pollard's actions, though many (including myself) think his sentence was overly harsh. It should be noted that Pollard has already gone up for parole and if he'd just do a mea culpa and apologize rather than writing these bombastic missives about what a tragic hero he is, he'd probably be out by now.
Nonetheless, he'll have been in prison for 28 years come November and I wouldn't have any serious objection to his release.
Originally posted by sh761. Jews needed a "homeland"
It is well known that Theodore Hertzl was an avowed atheist. Hertzl's Zionism was based on two basic principles:
1. Jews needed a "homeland"
2. That was not going to happen in Europe
Since Jews had "traditional" roots in the Palestine area and the area was loosely governed by a foreign empire (the Turks, at the time), this was a natural place. Hertzl wo ...[text shortened]... s of Israel (including Ben Gurion and virtually all of the Haganah leadership) were irreligious.
why?
i am asking in earnest. why do they need a homeland? why do they deserve a homeland?
does everyone who was oppressed deserve a homeland? are you going to give the native americans iowa? are the turks going to give some land to the kurds?
"2. That was not going to happen in Europe"
of course not. they couldn't have stolen land from europeans, they would have gotten destroyed. so they went and stole land from palestinians. with help from the americans, of course.
i am not saying today's israelis need to give up israel and leave. not their fault their grandparents were invaders. a little realization of how they got that land would be decent however.
"Since Jews had "traditional" roots in the Palestine area "
i thought you said you were not interested about what happened 2000 years ago. also i ask again. will you give the native americans iowa? they have traditional roots there
17 Mar 15
Originally posted by no1marauderIronically, more than any other groups, its Jews and Neocons who have seen to it that he's stayed in prison all these decades.
There has been a long campaign for him to be granted clemency from the usual Zionist suspects ( Netanyahu, Dershowitz, various Neo-cons, etc. etc. etc.) but so far all Presidents have declined to do so.
Critics allege that Pollard's espionage—which compromised elements of four major intelligence systems—damaged American national security far more than was ever publicly acknowledged.[9] Many intelligence officials are convinced that at least some of the information Pollard sold to Israel eventually wound up in the Soviet Union.[9] At the 1998 Wye River Conference, Benjamin Netanyahu demanded Pollard's release. President Clinton ordered a formal review of the case,[87] precipitating an "incredulous" reaction within the American intelligence community.[143] Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, along with six other former U.S. Secretaries of Defense (Melvin R. Laird, Frank C. Carlucci, Richard B. Cheney, Caspar W. Weinberger, James R. Schlesinger and Elliot L. Richardson) spoke out in opposition to clemency for Pollard.[10] They were joined by several senior congressional leaders.[10] In 1999 Seymour Hersh outlined the case against Pollard in The New Yorker.[144]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard#Opposition
A few years back, a person who was substantially involved in one of the Pollard negotiations showed be the letter referred to in the Wiki article signed by Weinberger, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Schlesinger, et al. It was quite firm in demanding the President Clinton decline to release Pollard. I even scanned and posted the article to Wikipedia, but some IP-zealot had it removed. The person I spoke to thinks that the letter may have been the tipping point in convincing Clinton to keep Pollard in prison.
17 Mar 15
Seeing so many personal opinion on spies here, I feel obliged to give mine. I see two types of spies.
1- The spy who spies on another nation to benefit his/her own.
2- The spy who spies on his/her own nation to benefit another nation.
#1 spy: When caught, should receive life imprisonment. No parole. When found guilty.
#2 spy: When caught, should receive immediate execution when found guilty.
A person who betrays their own country deserves no kindly consideration. There is also an added benefit from ridding the earth of him/her, that any need for un-ending debate related to this human rubbish, amoungst both citizenry and government, is avoided.
17 Mar 15
you mean move to a country, like the Jews did, that isn't your home and doesn't belong to you and never has. kill and torture the locals mentally and physically and then steal their lands? I guess that's totally what you meant. you just summed up the appalling self righteous attitude of and the problem with Zionist Jews. People like you just prove us right, this is why everyone hates you, look at yourselves and not others.
- Joined
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17 Mar 15
Originally posted by killzionismDon't know why you think you speak for 'everyone.' You certainly don't speak for me,and i don't have a drop of Jewish blood in me.
you mean move to a country, like the Jews did, that isn't your home and doesn't belong to you and never has. kill and torture the locals mentally and physically and then steal their lands? I guess that's totally what you meant. you just summed up the appalling self righteous attitude of and the problem with Zionist Jews. People like you just prove us right, this is why everyone hates you, look at yourselves and not others.
You're a bit one dimensional to be honest, a caricature rather than someone to be taken seriously. Even your chosen username confirms this conclusion.
17 Mar 15
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThe handle killzionism is actually a false flag operation. An ardent Zionist created the handle to mock and caricature the anti-Zionists.
Don't know why you think you speak for 'everyone.' You certainly don't speak for me,and i don't have a drop of Jewish blood in me.
You're a bit one dimensional to be honest, a caricature rather than someone to be taken seriously. Even your chosen username confirms this conclusion.
17 Mar 15
The post that was quoted here has been removedOriginally posted by Duchess64
Jonathan Pollard was a US citizen when he spied for Israel against the USA.
So Quarl believes that Jonathan Pollard should have been 'immediately executed'?
Yes, I do. But don't leave out the key phrase "when found guilty".
Originally posted by Duchess64
A drawback of immediately executing a captured spy is that it precludes the possibility of exchanging that spy for one own's spy (or spies) in the future. For example, the USA and USSR exchanged Francis Gary Powers (a U-2 pilot shot down in the USSR) for KGB officer Vilyam Fisher (aka Rudolf Abel).
Not correct: These two fall into my category #1 for which I recommend life imprisonment, when found guilty. Powers - US Nationality <and> Fisher - Russian Nationality.
Unlike those two (who were traded) Pollard falls into my category #2. A traitor who spied against his own country. Death when found guilty.