Clan Rating

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I was just wondering why there isn't a rating specifically for clan games?

I see there is a TER for tournaments (which was presumably to stop sandbagging and which appears to work).

So, why isn't there one for Clan games?

The cynic in me says that some clans would not want this as it would undoubtedly reduce 'sandbagging' ..... sort of a 'protectionist union' 😉

@anglian said
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I was just wondering why there isn't a rating specifically for clan games?

I see there is a TER for tournaments (which was presumably to stop sandbagging and which appears to work).

So, why isn't there one for Clan games?

The cynic in me says that some clans would not want this as it would undoubtedly reduce 'sandbagging' ..... sort of a 'protectionist union' 😉

Everyone agreed it would be a great idea years ago.
There is a separate rating for clubs.
Russ said it was too hard to do. too much programming and cost if I remember correctly
Russ might be open to look at the idea again if enough interest was shown

@anglian said
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I was just wondering why there isn't a rating specifically for clan games?

I see there is a TER for tournaments (which was presumably to stop sandbagging and which appears to work).

So, why isn't there one for Clan games?

The cynic in me says that some clans would not want this as it would undoubtedly reduce 'sandbagging' ..... sort of a 'protectionist union' 😉

It would be the perfect solution to an existing problem for years. Have a rating just for Clan Challenges. It would save many arguments that go no where. It was once voted down and once most were ok with it but as was said it was considered 'NOT' to be worth the cost and work it would take to do, as was already mentioned by Roma. I am hoping RUSS will have another look at this soon.

-VR

@roma45
A separate rating for clan games is a great idea.
But I have my doubts that Russ will go for it.
For those who remember, he redesigned the entire clan feature in 2016 and put out a beta version of it.
Which he eventually ended up shelving.

He has stuck to some minor enhancements (200 point rating gap, 3 maximum clan challenges between 2 clans and a 7 day gap between challenges with 2 clans).

A separate clan rating appears to be a bit of work (changes to database?)

He may be reluctant to get in too deep with the clan feature.

@mghrn55 said
@roma45
A separate rating for clan games is a great idea.
But I have my doubts that Russ will go for it.
For those who remember, he redesigned the entire clan feature in 2016 and put out a beta version of it.
Which he eventually ended up shelving.

He has stuck to some minor enhancements (200 point rating gap, 3 maximum clan challenges between 2 clans and a 7 day gap be ...[text shortened]... bit of work (changes to database?)

He may be reluctant to get in too deep with the clan feature.

@mghrn55,

I believe you are correct on all points made. The issue here is we keep losing clans every year. Down to 4 in pages from all the pages we once had, something has to be done in my humble opinion.

We can't be throwing accusations at each other for no reason simply because there is only the one rating to go by.

To stop a problem that has existed for years perhaps this needs another looking at by RUSS? I would love to see the feature saved and more than 2 or 3 clans with a chance to win each year.

-VR

@Very-Rusty
Agreed.

@mghrn55 said
@roma45
A separate rating for clan games is a great idea.
But I have my doubts that Russ will go for it.
For those who remember, he redesigned the entire clan feature in 2016 and put out a beta version of it.
Which he eventually ended up shelving.

He has stuck to some minor enhancements (200 point rating gap, 3 maximum clan challenges between 2 clans and a 7 day gap be ...[text shortened]... bit of work (changes to database?)

He may be reluctant to get in too deep with the clan feature.

Something to do with coding
Too complicated hence too expensive
Plus new players joining a clan would need to be provisional 1200 like in clubs for 20 games no one would play against a 1200 if their TER was 1800 etc so they'd get no games
That was the reasons if I remember clearly

@roma45 said
Something to do with coding
Too complicated hence too expensive
Plus new players joining a clan would need to be provisional 1200 like in clubs for 20 games no one would play against a 1200 if their TER was 1800 etc so they'd get no games
That was the reasons if I remember clearly

The other option was that the player would carry his/her present site rating over to his clan.
Problem here is that everyone will be manipulating their ratings before day one.

@mghrn55 But any manipulations would quickly wash out as existing games complete. Of course, a simple solution would be to take the player’s current rating, adjust for the last 10-20 clan games completed and use the new number as the starting clan number. Might be more complicated than that to calculate but might not.

@mghrn55 said
The other option was that the player would carry his/her present site rating over to his clan.
Problem here is that everyone will be manipulating their ratings before day one.

@mghrn55,
Just spring it upon everyone, so no one knows when it is going to happen. 🙂 Lstcyr Is correct it wouldn't take long for everything to even itself out.

-VR

@anglian said
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I was just wondering why there isn't a rating specifically for clan games?

I see there is a TER for tournaments (which was presumably to stop sandbagging and which appears to work).

So, why isn't there one for Clan games?

The cynic in me says that some clans would not want this as it would undoubtedly reduce 'sandbagging' ..... sort of a 'protectionist union' 😉

Anglian, many used TER but don't use it anymore. They found it does not work with sandbagging or to determine what a persons real rating is. We use other methods now. The best way I think is to know the player as well as you can, go through their games, go into "view games" and that shows every game they ever played and you can research what you need through there.

TER has proven not to work. I think TER and ratings are just a guide.

In my humble opinion.

@VESPIN

How could you know any better if the players games you are looking at are from higher rating categories?

I'm barely 1700 when playing well, I couldn't analyze a game from a 2000 rated player.

What do you look for?

Well ...... it is looking like the 2023 clan season is going to be very competitive.
The clan naysayers can sit back and enjoy the show.
And it is likely that there will be some back and forth jabs between a couple of clans.
But hey !! That is part of the game.
As for me, I am getting myself through a period of illness, but I'll be back in the saddle soon doing my best for my clan.

Let's have at it !!

@mghrn55 said
Well ...... it is looking like the 2023 clan season is going to be very competitive.
The clan naysayers can sit back and enjoy the show.
And it is likely that there will be some back and forth jabs between a couple of clans.
But hey !! That is part of the game.
As for me, I am getting myself through a period of illness, but I'll be back in the saddle soon doing my best for my clan.

Let's have at it !!

Whoever gives a thumbs down to someone who is ailing is a real schmuck

@bobla45 said
Whoever gives a thumbs down to someone who is ailing is a real schmuck

I gave M55 a thumb up to try and even things out. I really don't think any malice was really intended, M55 could say he was going to give everyone a million dollars and get thumbs down, it is the nature of the beast we have created on here.

EDIT: Note he got 2 thumbs down for agreeing with something I said. So I wouldn't take much into that seriously.

-VR