11 Apr 07
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeUEFA Cup in the last 20 years.
I don't see any evidence that the competitiveness is better in Serie A than the EPL.
As I posted earlier, the difference between 1st and 4th in points at the end of the season in the EPL was:
12,16,16,30,34,24,22 (current)
In Serie A these differences were:
19,16,12,23,23,22,32 (current)
Considering Serie A plays 4 less games than the EPL, ...[text shortened]... Champion's League/European Cups:
England clubs 10
Italy clubs 10
Where's the difference?
English teams.
1. Liverpool - 2001
Spanish Teams
1. Valencia - 2004
2. Sevilla - 2006
Italian Teams.
1. Juventus - 1990, 1993
2. Inter - 1991, 1994, 1998
3. Parma - 1995, 1999
4. Napoli - 1989
11 Apr 07
2 edits
Originally posted by EsotericWhy did you pick that particular time period it wouldn't be to exclude Between 1975 and 1985, when nine English teams played in the final of the European Cup, and eight times an English team lifted the trophy would it? Also don't forget we were banned for 3 years (was it?) in 1985 and also this year 2007 with 3 teams in the semi final the worst result is a mere finalist, however we could have 2 finalists, especially when you consider the english teams are first 3 in the betting.
Go back for the last 20 years and tell me how many English clubs have won the UEFA Cup and Champions League.
EDIT: Going back 15 years (champions league. Am working on the UEFA cup).
English Winners
Liverpool - 2005
Man U - 1999
Total - 2
English Runner Up
Arsenal - 2006
Total - 1
Italian Winners
AC Milan - 1990, 1994, 2003
Juve ...[text shortened]... have only had 3 finals appearances in the last 15 years, while Spain had 8 and the Italians 11.
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by stevetoddIt's as far back as i could find in a short amount of time. But i think going back further than 15 to 20 years really is irrelevant in this argument as were are discussing current performance.
Why did you pick that particular time period it wouldn't be to exclude Between 1975 and 1985, when nine English teams played in the final of the European Cup, and eight times an English team lifted the trophy would it? Also don't forget we were banned for 3 years (was it?) in a985 and also this year 2007 with 3 teams in the semi final the worst result is a ...[text shortened]... d have 2 finalists, especially when you consider the english teams are fisrt 3 in the betting.
Anyway i have just found the full list for both.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefa_cup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League
11 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Esotericwell you cannot argue with current performance, that's 3 english teams (I think it's safe to assume liverpool will make it) in the semi finals
It's as far back as i could find in a short amount of time. But i think going back further than 15 to 20 years really is irrelevant in this argument as were are discussing current performance.
Anyway i have just found the full list for both.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefa_cup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by EsotericI definitely would agree that Italian teams showed dominance during the 90's. However that was 7+ years ago, and your figures show no such dominance this decade, with a possible favour towards English teams over Italians. Note I'm not debating Spanish teams - I've already admitted their league is more competitive.
Go back for the last 20 years and tell me how many English clubs have won the UEFA Cup and Champions League.
EDIT: Going back 15 years (champions league. Am working on the UEFA cup).
English Winners
Liverpool - 2005
Man U - 1999
Total - 2
English Runner Up
Arsenal - 2006
Total - 1
Italian Winners
AC Milan - 1990, 1994, 2003
Juve ...[text shortened]... have only had 3 finals appearances in the last 15 years, while Spain had 8 and the Italians 11.
Liverpool was banned for 6 years after 1985, other English clubs for 5 years. Seeing as your figures are only back to 1991 this doesn't include the time English clubs were banned, but the 5 years of no European football did have a huge affect on the competitiveness of English clubs on the European stage.
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeFull winners list is above
I definitely would agree that Italian teams showed dominance during the 90's. However that was 7+ years ago, and your figures show no such dominance this decade, with a possible favour towards English teams over Italians. Note I'm not debating Spanish teams - I've already admitted their league is more competitive.
Liverpool was banned for 6 years afte ...[text shortened]... otball did have a huge affect on the competitiveness of English clubs on the European stage.
11 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Esotericwell no, not really, it comes down to facts, we're not talking about whether you like a particular food here, we're talking about facts between the epl and the italian league, the facts are the epl is better - simple as
Yep. Seems that way. I guess it comes down to personal taste.
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by eatmybishopWhat facts? You have no facts to prove this? If you think purely basing a leagues merit on the champions league result is the final measuring stick then that is ridiculous. In the last ten champions league:
well no, not really, it comes down to facts, we're not talking about whether you like a particular food here, we're talking about facts between the epl and the italian league, the facts are the epl is better - simple as
English Teams have won it twice, and runners up once. Italian teams have won it twice, and runners up 3 times.
So if you want to go by that (which I disagree with using this as a measuring stick) then the Italians have a slight advantage.
12 Apr 07
1 edit
It's all about the money. The English league has got stronger over the last decade or so as it has got immeasurably richer; it's now clearly superior to Serie A (which is in a bit of a mess), and I would suggest about on a par with La Liga. With a very small number of exceptions (in South America), money will always win in the end these days. Improved scouting and players' willingness to travel anywhere in the world (for a price) make that inevitable.