Originally posted by 667joe
The type of slavery you discuss is considered wrong and illegal today. And again, the only reason homosexuality is wrong to you is because god says so. If homosexuals enjoy sex (especially if they are disease free) what harm or concern is it to you? Would it be OK with you if it could be proven to you that god did not exist?

Mans laws will never be better then God's. And personally I don't care who gets in bed with anyone else becuse I'm not the one who will judge them as will as ones like yourself who can't see the morality in it. Your and the homosexuals thoughts are not spiritual so that is the problem for your reasoning. Sounds a little like the time period right before the flood..Gen 6:5.
And if you really think you can make me not believe in God..Go for it.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
That's a false dichotomy. Not all believers are so literal minded.

But epiphinehas above regards christian belief as more reasonable than atheism. I was just making the point that most people are in this position, (thinking their own world view is the most reasonable), whilst a few recognise that in fact they don't hold religious beliefs in the same re ...[text shortened]... nonetheless still believe them.
I suppose it is a bit of an obvious point, but there you go.

I should have been more specific. I find theism far more reasonable than atheism. Indeed, much of Christian belief is, as you say, unreasonable from an everyday perspective.

Originally posted by galveston75
Mans laws will never be better then God's. And personally I don't care who gets in bed with anyone else becuse I'm not the one who will judge them as will as ones like yourself who can't see the morality in it. Your and the homosexuals thoughts are not spiritual so that is the problem for your reasoning. Sounds a little like the time period right before the flood..Gen 6:5.
And if you really think you can make me not believe in God..Go for it.

Great! Let's stone Tiger Woods for adultery and we may as well stone a few disobedient children as well, and every one who takes the lord's name in vain. Some of you Christians have a notable superiority complex. May I remind you that just because you believe in something does not make it true no matter how much you wish it to be! If you had lived 600 years ago, you would be burning witches at the stake and feeling very good about it.

Originally posted by 667joe
Great! Let's stone Tiger Woods for adultery and we may as well stone a few disobedient children as well, and every one who takes the lord's name in vain. Some of you Christians have a notable superiority complex. May I remind you that just because you believe in something does not make it true no matter how much you wish it to be! If you had lived 600 years ago, you would be burning witches at the stake and feeling very good about it.

Sorry you don't agrre with God's ways. Nothing else to say to you...

Originally posted by 667joe
What is the reason then that, if you go by population ratio's, percentage wise, fewer atheists are in jail. Plus, if your theory were true, there would be no Christians committing crimes which is clearly not the case. Some Christians openly bash gays which is a crime, and they do it with biblical justification. Think of the thousands of witches burned a ...[text shortened]... n with atheists such as Thomas Edison, Thomas Paine, Bill Gates, and Abraham Lincoln any time.

What is the reason then that, if you go by population ratio's, percentage wise, fewer atheists are in jail.

Probably because there are fewer atheists in the general population.

Plus, if your theory were true, there would be no Christians committing crimes which is clearly not the case.

Not necessarily so. There are many "Christians" who only claim that title, yet live unrighteous lives. The way a Christian habitually behaves is, in fact, a significant indicator of whether or not that Christian has been genuinely born-again by the Spirit.

Some Christians openly bash gays which is a crime, and they do it with biblical justification.

There are always fringe lunatics and crazies who think they are justified in gay bashing. The majority of Christians, at least those I am familiar with, realize it is their duty to love, respect and serve all mankind without condemnation.

Think of the thousands of witches burned at the stake with the approval of Christians.

If you cast your eye back through history you can find many more examples of Christians behaving badly than just this, but none of it negates the point that I make: that those who are born of the Spirit live holy lives, and are in fact the only people capable of living holy lives.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
I should have been more specific. I find theism far more reasonable than atheism. Indeed, much of Christian belief is, as you say, unreasonable from an everyday perspective.

Fair enough.

Do you have any ideas as to why some people find theism more reasonable and others don't? I've wondered about that for ages.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Fair enough.

Do you have any ideas as to why some people find theism more reasonable and others don't? I've wondered about that for ages.

I'm probably not the best person to ask about that, given that I already find theism more reasonable. I think atheists simply refuse to entertain any of the logical evidence for theism, for whatever reason. As a former atheist myself, I remember harboring extremely antagonistic emotions toward the idea of God (the Christian God in particular). It's difficult to pinpoint where these emotions arose from exactly, but I'm positive that they prevented me from taking anything to do with theism seriously at all.

I came to accept a theistic worldview long before I became a Christian, as it became much more palatable, in general, to my intellect at the time. Why so? I do remember being made suspicious of atheism because of the arrogance of its proponents and because of its wide, unquestioned acceptance among many of my college friends, and academia in general. I asked myself, what if God does exist, despite how cocksure I am that he doesn't? It was that moment of intellectual humility, reactionary though it was, that made it possible for me to consider the logical evidence for the existence of God.

How I became a Christian is a whole other can of beans...

Originally posted by epiphinehas
I'm probably not the best person to ask about that, given that I already find theism more reasonable. I think atheists simply refuse to entertain any of the logical evidence for theism, for whatever reason. As a former atheist myself, I remember harboring extremely antagonistic emotions toward the idea of God (the Christian God in particular). It's di ...[text shortened]... dence for the existence of God.

How I became a Christian is a whole other can of beans...

Thanks for taking the time, that was an interesting answer.

Although you might be right that some atheists are like you were, and do simply refuse to entertain any of the logical evidence for theism, you must have considered the possibility that not all atheists are that way?

I can speak for myself as an atheist, I have looked very carefully at lots of arguments that present the logical evidence for theism. So it wouldn't be true to say I haven't entertained them. I have considered them carefully, but in the end I found them to be unconvincing.

But at the same time, I can recognise that you will have looked closely at the logical arguments against theism. You will have entertained those. You will have considered them very carefully, and in the end, found them wanting.

Do you see what I mean?

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Thanks for taking the time, that was an interesting answer.

Although you might be right that some atheists are like you were, and do simply refuse to entertain any of the logical evidence for theism, you must have considered the possibility that not all atheists are that way?

I can speak for myself as an atheist, I have looked very carefully at lots ...[text shortened]... onsidered them very carefully, and in the end, found them wanting.

Do you see what I mean?

I see your point and agree. There are no definite answers. I might find theism more reasonable, yet I also admit that I don't know for sure that theism is true or exactly why I find theism more reasonable. Internally, I experience the apprehension of the truth of theism as intuitive, i.e., I just know that it must be so. I say intuitive because it is a strong conviction which doesn't rest on any particular logical formulation or combination of logical formulations. I'm not sure if this type intuitive leap could occur for the atheist concerning the truth of atheism since atheism seems to depend more on inductive reasoning rather than deductive, but I could be mistaken.

Originally posted by 667joe
If I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life? 😠

nah bro. Good question. Bu t I wouldn't change anything...

Originally posted by 667joe
So sin is OK as long as it is not willful? Also, since every one sins, who are you going to associate with? Name me a sin that is not willful.

steppin on ants (?)

Originally posted by 667joe
So you agree, if it is not willful, it's not a sin, or, in other words, all sin is willful. Thank you!

Yes, I agree.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]What is the reason then that, if you go by population ratio's, percentage wise, fewer atheists are in jail.

Probably because there are fewer atheists in the general population.

]

Atheists are 14% of the general population, but only 1% of the prison population.

Originally posted by 667joe
Atheists are 14% of the general population, but only 1% of the prison population.

Why this might be a meaningless statistic:

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=57829&p=1351437

Originally posted by 667joe
Great! Let's stone Tiger Woods for adultery and we may as well stone a few disobedient children as well, and every one who takes the lord's name in vain. Some of you Christians have a notable superiority complex. May I remind you that just because you believe in something does not make it true no matter how much you wish it to be! If you had lived 600 years ago, you would be burning witches at the stake and feeling very good about it.

I might LOL I think I would just drink and party & just be a total A-hole LOL 🙂 I would be like "Let's Party for tomorrow we die"!
I do agree with you as far as you are asking legitimate questions. Christians (myself included) come off all high and mighty at times. I don't believe in gay bashing at all. Christians who do are ignorant fools! I believe the reason it's a sin is because it goes against the natural order in which God created however it's no different from any other sin. I have been friends with gay people. I would hang out with them. I would hope that I would not have been one of those burning people at the stake but I can't say 100% that I would not have been.

PS
They the press needs to back off of Tiger LOL 🙂


Manny