With or without religion

@fmf said
A synthesis of nature and nurture "provides the rules" - it creates a unique moral compass in each of us. Your religion is an element of nurture. If you'd been born in the street I live in, and then lived in this city or elsewhere on this island, you'd almost certainly be a Muslim.

I don't care what religion you are exposed to, you could be a called a Christian without God within you are still working it out on your own. Nurture isn't a north for people who don't care about you! A moral compass is either guiding you against the flow of evil, or it isn't there period! Everything can be justified if you want it, from there everyman does what is right in their own eyes.

@kellyjay said
I don't care what religion you are exposed to, you could be a called a Christian without God within you are still working it out on your own. Nurture isn't a north for people who don't care about you! A moral compass is either guiding you against the flow of evil, or it isn't there period! Everything can be justified if you want it, from there everyman does what is right in their own eyes.

"Nurture" refers to whatever you are exposed to, your upbringing, your socialization. Interest in the Christian Bible is something you absorbed from your human environment. That's where you and every religious person gets their religious beliefs from. "Nature" is whatever results from your hard wiring. Do you think that religious beliefs can make good people do bad things?

@kellyjay said
Your perceptions are yours, they would be without weight with me if there is nothing binding us together, if your not convenient why would or should I care what you think?

Religious or not religious, we are bound together by our human nature. Obviously, people can do good things and bad things regardless of whether they are religious or not religious, but do you think people can do bad things because of their religion?

@fmf said
Religious or not religious, we are bound together by our human nature. Obviously, people can do good things and bad things regardless of whether they are religious or not religious, but do you think people can do bad things because of their religion?

Yes, religion can just be an excuse. I'd be willing to say that religion is used to stay away from God more than it is to draw people to Him. People can do their religious duty and they when are done, they go do what they will, never once actually seeking God or inviting Him into their lives. Religion is just a word, it takes God to turn a life around.

@kellyjay said
Yes, religion can just be an excuse. I'd be willing to say that religion is used to stay away from God more than it is to draw people to Him. People can do their religious duty and they when are done, they go do what they will, never once actually seeking God or inviting Him into their lives. Religion is just a word, it takes God to turn a life around.

I am asking about when religious people obey religious doctrine.

@fmf said
I am asking about when religious people obey religious doctrine.

What about it? Would the morals due to doctrine release them from guilt, if what they did was really evil in God's sight?

@kellyjay said
What about it?

Why don't you answer this question?

@kellyjay said
Would the morals due to doctrine release them from guilt, if what they did was really evil in God's sight?

Give me an example of a religious doctrine that you think would be "really evil" in the sight of that religion's God.

@fmf said
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion. ~ Steven Weinberg

Is there some truth in this?

Did it take religion for Abraham to become a servant of God? No, Abraham was surrounded by idol worshipers.

A sign of a servant of God is to hate evil, and assumingly embrace the God in all he facets that opposes such evil.

Remember, religious folk put Jesus on the cross and carried out abysmal injustices such as the Inquisitions, Salem witch trials, and Crusades. But what has already been eluded to, done all in the name of the state.

@fmf said
Do you think religion can make good people do bad things sometimes?

I am curious:

What would be an example of a bad person, and what would be an example of a good person?

Isn't someone who is willing to do something evil all along just somebody who is superficially good?

@philokalia said
I am curious:

What would be an example of a bad person, and what would be an example of a good person?

Isn't someone who is willing to do something evil all along just somebody who is superficially good?

Isn't someone who is willing to do something evil all along just somebody who is superficially good?

According to the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth, that would be everyone who has not ceased to sin.

Luke 6
43“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

One is either a "good tree" or a "bad tree":
"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. "

John 8
34... “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
31..."If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
35 “The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

One is either a "son" or a "slave":
“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever."

The "slave" becomes a "son" by being "made free" from "committing sin". To be a "true disciple" one MUST cease to sin.

@philokalia said
I am curious:

What would be an example of a bad person, and what would be an example of a good person?

Isn't someone who is willing to do something evil all along just somebody who is superficially good?

Was Adam and Eve superficially good?

@whodey said
Was Adam and Eve superficially good?

Superficially, it's 'were' not 'was.'

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Gee, thanks for learn'en me.

Good to knew.

@fmf said
Give me an example of a religious doctrine that you think would be "really evil" in the sight of that religion's God.

What religion what god?