Originally posted by Rajk999
As in work for it. oops the dreaded 'W' word.

I know, its a dirty word for some. Great thread idea though.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I know, its a dirty word for some. Great thread idea though.

Complements to Whodey for the thread idea.

Has anyone ever read the 'Wisdom of Sirach'. It forms part of the Apocrypha and was in fact included in the Septuagint, the Bible which Paul and the Apostles used extensively when preaching to the Greeks. Actually it is also in the 1611 KJV.

This book is similar to Proverbs but goes into a lot of detail and advises about personal living. It is interesting to read and it is alleged that several New Testament writers have quoted from this book.

Why it was omitted from the New KJV I dont know know.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The lesson is that if you want to receive a blessing from God sometimes you need to struggle to achieve it.

There is no mistake that the message is that we wrestle with God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Why it was omitted from the New KJV I dont know know.

Probably because god wanted it omitted

Originally posted by whodey
There is no mistake that the message is that we wrestle with God.

i dont think Israel literally wrestled with God, was it not an angel sent by God?

Originally posted by divegeester
Probably because god wanted it omitted

Q : Why was it included in the Septuagint?
A : Probably because God wanted it included.

I guess that answer can be used for every question and would even be a satisfactory answer for many. But hopefully we can do better than that.

Originally posted by apathist
God Will Kill Everyone



"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and de ...[text shortened]... They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

This is the fate of the wicked that do not worship the LORD God. But what about those made righteous through faith?

The Instructor

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dont think Israel literally wrestled with God, was it not an angel sent by God?

So for the sake of argument let's say you are right and it was an angel FROM God. Are you not still wrestling with his messenger?

Originally posted by whodey
So for the sake of argument let's say you are right and it was an angel FROM God. Are you not still wrestling with his messenger?

yes, but was not Israel blessed at the end of the struggle? In fact is it not true that he would not give up until he received a blessing?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dont think Israel literally wrestled with God, was it not an angel sent by God?

Does it matter?

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Does it matter?

The Instructor

yes it matters, we are interested in accuracy, or at least I am.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes it matters, we are interested in accuracy, or at least I am.

You are interested in what fits your doctrines.

The Instructor

Originally posted by Rajk999
Q : Why was it included in the Septuagint?
A : Probably because God wanted it included.

I guess that answer can be used for every question and would even be a satisfactory answer for many. But hopefully we can do better than that.

It's not in the bible. Whether or not is was included in another group of writings is irrelevant.

Originally posted by divegeester
It's not in the bible. Whether or not is was included in another group of writings is irrelevant.

Both Septuagint and 1611 KJV are Bibles.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Both Septuagint and 1611 KJV are Bibles.

Can you provide some authentic references which help explain your position that (as I'm understanding you), extra biblical (current accepted editions and translations) text should be considered and spirit inspired?