Will spread like gangrene

@sonship said
@divegeester

The son is the father, same person. Says so in Isaiah. So yeah his throne is forever.

Yes.
But what else does the Scripture say?

It says that the Son always lives to make intercession for the believers.

[quote] But He, because He abides forever, has His preisthood unalterable. Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost tho ...[text shortened]...

Is He not the unique triune God ?
[b]"You [the Son] are a Priest FOREVER ..."

No, as I said, several times, it’s the same person.

@divegeester

You are too fond of misquoting me sonship - it is tantamount to lying.

When I put words in quotations like that to convey the thoughts of posters I usually do one of two things, or both.

I precede it with "Ie." - which I intend to mean "for example."

Or I follow it with "[paraphrased]" , meaning it is not verbatim but how I take someone's communication to me.

I do not intend for anyone to take them as direct verbatim quotations.
And these two methods I employ to convey that.

I might have missed to include those qualifiers, but not usually, I think.

@sonship said
@divegeester

You are too fond of misquoting me sonship - it is tantamount to lying.

When I put words in quotations like that to convey the thoughts of posters I usually do one of two things, or both.

I precede it with "Ie." - which I intend to mean "for example."

Or I follow it with "[paraphrased]" , meaning it is not ...[text shortened]... mploy to convey that.

I might have missed to include those qualifiers, but not usually, I think.

I’m not interested in your lame excuses.

I have repeatedly asked you to stop quoting me as saying things I haven’t said. You have form for this with other posters too.

It is dishonest.

@divegeester

I will stop paraphrasing you.

I will do my best to also not copy and paste you either. I don't want most of your words to spread their effect anyway.

@KellyJay

. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

This warning is all part of Paul's prediction of the decline of the church. He on one hand predicts by the Spirit of God the decline of the church. Yet amazingly he is upbeat and assured that God's life in faithful ones will prevail in spite of the decline the church.

"But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons." (1 Tim. 4:1)

He just foresaw more of what he witnessed these two wayward backslidden co-workers did happening.

@sonship said
Lastly, Christians who repent under the blood and apologize should never grovel. One acknowledgment of a failure before God and man is good enough.

Sometimes something will attempt to make you re-apologize. This is to grovel and think that repetition will cleanse you.

Repetition of repentance does not cleanse us. The blood of Jesus cleanses us. And time does not clean ...[text shortened]... or others of offenses, that has no further effect on me. I didn't learn faith in Christ in that way.

Lastly, Christians who repent under the blood and apologize should never grovel. One acknowledgment of a failure before God and man is good enough.
There is something to what you're saying here. However, just saying i'm sorry and then heading on your marry way, is sometimes not near enough repentance. If I murder someone can I just say I'm sorry and then head on my marry way and expect Jesus to have forgiven me with no more repercussions? I hardly think so.
Look at King David after his adultery and cold-blooded murder of Uriah; he repented much more than I am sorry; and, he still suffered much for the rest of his life for his sin. However, he knew at a point in time that God had forgiven him. So was King David groveling the whole time he was repenting? Or, should he have just said I'm sorry and went on his way like it was no big deal since the Lord forgave him?

[2nd Corinthians 7:15 NKJV] 15 And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him.
[Philippians 2:12 NKJV] 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
[Psalms 2:11 NKJV] 11 Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
These scriptures alone throw the 'once saved always saved' theory out the window. Judas is a perfect example.

@KingDavid403

Yes, I do not mean "go on your merry way" in the sense that repentance is not down to the bottom in sincerity.

You too have a problem with the assurance of eternal redemption?

These scriptures alone throw the 'once saved always saved' theory out the window.

I don't think the verses you referenced are about eternal life or the lack of security of eternal redemption. I never took them that way.

I take them to mean to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling is the working out of the salvation of transformation of the soul. It is not work out the salvation of eternal redemption.

This is the Phillipian warning to work at a salvation from murmurings and reasonings that was occurring in the Philippian church in Paul's absence.

"So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but now much rather in my absence,

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

For it is God who operates in you both the willing and the working for His good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and reasonings that you may be blameless and guileless children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as luminaries in the world."

Since God is already IN them as the operating One and the willing One, Christ as life they have already received.

But outwardly to the world Paul did not want them to appear with NO DIFFERENCE. They should be holding forth the word of life. So they need a salvation from rivalries, competitions, jealousies, reasonings, murmurings, grumblings and strife. These are the things of the untransformed soul.

With fear and trembling, knowing that God wills their transformation to the image of Christ, they must cooperate with the operating God. He is with them like "power steering". A little cooperation with the operating God and their souls may be conformed to Christ.

I do not take this verse to mean they trembled to work out their eternal redemption.

In fact, God who is operating in them has started a good work. And He is righteously bound by His own covenant to complete that work.

"Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun in you a good work will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil. 1:6)

He will complete the work that He has started. Sooner or latter He will. Paul is saying in essence - "Why not sooner rather than latter?"

The exhortation you pointed to, 3:12 follows Paul's example of the mind which the saints should have that Christ had. That is His steps of humbling Himself in verses 6 -11.

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, Who existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped, But emptied Himself ... etc. etc. etc. "

Based on the example of their Lord and Savior emptying Himself in utter humbleness and obedience to the Father, they are, like Him, to allow that indwelling Lord to operate in them both the willing and the working for His good pleasure in them.

"So then, my beloved ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling ..."

This is the salvation of the transformation of the soul.
If they were not secure in their being eternally redeemed they could not HAVE God operating IN them both the willing and the working. They would still be awaiting for God to come INTO them.

God has BEGUN in them already a good work (1:6) and is SURE to complete it "until the day of Christ Jesus" - until the "day" [the epoch] of His millennial kingdom on the earth.

@KingDavid403

Look at King David after his adultery and cold-blooded murder of Uriah; he repented much more than I am sorry; and, he still suffered much for the rest of his life for his sin. However, he knew at a point in time that God had forgiven him. So was King David groveling the whole time he was repenting? Or, should he have just said I'm sorry and went on his way like it was no big deal since the Lord forgave him?

Yes, David further suffered consequences of his sin even after he repented.

There can be forgiveness with discipline from God.

But you will also see that whatever discipline David endured from God after his sins, was not for his enemies to gloat over. I mean, enjoying to rub his face in his past errors. You saw what happened when Shimei wanted to gloat over David being disciplined by God through Absalom his rebellious son.

Second Samuel chapter 16.

@kellyjay said
Interesting read in my devotions this morning.

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more ...[text shortened]... d knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

For us, one of the saddest thing about us going to Christ for sins we know are ours, and we do them willfully anyway without a struggle to overcome them. If that is a lifestyle choice, it is a horrible way to treat our Savior, something else Jesus had to die for without giving that a thought His love for us.

@sonship said
@KingDavid403

Yes, I do not mean "go on your merry way" in the sense that repentance is not down to the bottom in sincerity.

You too have a problem with the assurance of eternal redemption?

These scriptures alone throw the 'once saved always saved' theory out the window.

I don't think the verses you referenced are about eternal life or th ...[text shortened]... st of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as luminaries in the world." [/quote]

Do all things without murmurings and reasonings that you may be blameless and guileless children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine as luminaries in the world."
lol, Yes, you need to practice what you preach.
You too have a problem with the assurance of eternal redemption?
[John 15:5-6 NIV] 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

@sonship said
@KingDavid403

[quote] Look at King David after his adultery and cold-blooded murder of Uriah; he repented much more than I am sorry; and, he still suffered much for the rest of his life for his sin. However, he knew at a point in time that God had forgiven him. So was King David groveling the whole time he was repenting? Or, should he have just said I'm sorry and went on h ...[text shortened]... ver David being disciplined by God through Absalom his rebellious son.

Second Samuel chapter 16.

I would suggest reading the Psalms of David again. He talks much of others gloating over him, and wagging their heads at him, and speaking evil of him with their tongues etc.
Also, it was not just Absalom that David had trouble with; Amnon, one of Davids other sons, he raped Davids daughter Tamar, His own half sister, etc.

@sonship said
@divegeester
I will stop paraphrasing you.

You are not “paraphrasing me” you are misquoting me.

Stop being dishonest.

@kellyjay said
To argue for the sake of argument is another thing all together.

Who in here do you think is arguing for the sake of arguing?

@KingDavid403

lol, Yes, you need to practice what you preach.

Laugh?
I too need to work out my own salvation.

Did I imply personal exemption from this exhortation?

You too have a problem with the assurance of eternal redemption?

[John 15:5-6 NIV] 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Some readers may regard that as a warning about perishing forever. However, I would not teach it that way or too much other PLAIN teaching in John would have to be flatly contradicted.

This warning of being gathered and burned as branches that failed to abide, I would teach as something probably akin to Paul's warning that some will be saved, yet so as through fire, at worst.

"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.

If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)

I think John 15:6 is something along the line of suffering loss but not eternal salvation. Jesus has already told the disciples that no one is able to pluck them out of His hand and that forever. (John 10:28-30)

"And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father,. who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.

I and the Father are one." (John 10:28-30)

Here we have the Son's and the Father's mighty hand/s of love and power.

These are a basis for the security of eternal life.
The keeping power of God is the believers' protection.

From experience, I have seen and temporarily experienced myself, if I do not abide in the living Lord, men can gather you to some OTHER purpose. Comparatively it is like being dried up and cast into a fire.

John 15:6 doesn't specify exactly who are the gatherers. Whether gathered by angels or gathered by men wanting to take you away from abiding in Christ, there is the suffering of loss.

That is not the eternal suffering of perdition there. Otherwise too many completely clear verses in John's gospel would be contradicted outright.