29 Jan 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelYou want to make science out of it? Fine with me. Prove it scientifically, and I'll change my opinion.
That is not entirely true. What you believe only constitutes SOME percentage of what actually is. Just because you dont believe in ghosts, for example, belief in them is not a prerequisate for their existence, although strangely enough, your thoughts/beliefs seem to affect reality in more ways than you may be able to even imagine, let alone fathom.
I ...[text shortened]... relates to universal law), defines how much resonance that thought will have on the outer owrld.
I can also use your argument about existence of the tooth fairy. Your belief, or non-belief, in her existence doesn't change the fact that she does indeed exist, or not exist. But if you do believe in her existance, then you might find a coin under your pillow put there by her as a gift. If you don't believe in her, then you will never have a coin there, of that reason.
So what we believe, or not believe, doesn't prove anything. But the fear of hell is real indeed. Christians fear hell (at least those who believe in the existence of the place). Non-christians don't. For non-christians there is no hell, only for christians.
If we treat the existence of god the exactly the same way the existance of tooth fairy, we come to some strange results. In one case the belief is childish, in the other case it is a indesputable fact, for some. But it is as hard to prove the existence of one of them as the other.
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by SuzianneSo what is the test that you referred to all about and what happens when you fail it?
The punishment is not for failing the test of faith.
Sin is abhorrent to God, and it requires a price.
Is that something you can explain, or something that you do not have an explanation for? Does it make sense to you, or is it just something you take on faith?
29 Jan 11
let's face it, no one on any of these forums now matter how seemingly brilliant they type knows anything at all. What everyone talks about in every post on every page on every subject goes full circle to nothing because it's all spiritual and can't be quantified anyway. Soooo.... my point is what? who cares. I believe in God because i chose to.Nothing more nothing less. That's all folks.
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by big bernSo why would you choose to believe in something that cant be quantified or explained?
let's face it, no one on any of these forums now matter how seemingly brilliant they type knows anything at all. What everyone talks about in every post on every page on every subject goes full circle to nothing because it's all spiritual and can't be quantified anyway. Soooo.... my point is what? who cares. I believe in God because i chose to.Nothing more nothing less. That's all folks.
And I must point out that some of what is discussed on this forum does end with very conclusive results. For example, some claims turn out to be illogical.
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by twhitehead1: Why wouldn't I ? 2: I have never seen one thing on these forums that has actually ended up in what one would consider a conclusive result. Show me something through all your copying and pasting that you have actually worked through and determined is fact. It's impossible as the underlying bricks and mortar of all these conversations (the building blocks if you will) are all based on Spirituality which at it's essence either exists in your mind or it is just a vacant lot .
So why would you choose to believe in something that cant be quantified or explained?
And I must point out that some of what is discussed on this forum does end with very conclusive results. For example, some claims turn out to be illogical.
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by RBHILLYou are quite welcomed.
Thanks for the post.
I think we have to consider the whole scope of the divine revelation. On one hand God says in Isaiah that He will not give His glory to another (Isa. 42:8). But on the other hand His eternal purpose calls for Him dispensing Himself and wroughting Himself into man. So where He goes the divine glory goes with Him.
That is how we can reconcile these utterances.
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by big bernI agree with you that a discussion about believing or not believing in God looks like a never ending story. But discussing why and how you (not) believe in God is certainly not without merits. How believers and non believers can find each other on ethical question and dilemmas is rather important to me. Science has definitely changed the belief of most people.
let's face it, no one on any of these forums now matter how seemingly brilliant they type knows anything at all. What everyone talks about in every post on every page on every subject goes full circle to nothing because it's all spiritual and can't be quantified anyway. Soooo.... my point is what? who cares. I believe in God because i chose to.Nothing more nothing less. That's all folks.
I think the concept of hell has also changed through time due to science and discussion.
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by sonhouseEnjoy your stay in hell. 😕
If hell is not the result of religion why does your god want to send people there forever and ever to burn and burn, etc.?
Also your god is supposedly omniscient, then it stands to reason your god already knew before someone was born whether or not that person would 'accept your lord'.
In that case it knows already who is destined for your hell and who ...[text shortened]... hy?
This is just the silliest excuse for a religion I have ever heard. Rule by fear. nice.
29 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by big bernIt just seems like an odd thing to do. Do you pick what you believe in at random, or do you go by tradition, or what you think will benefit you?
1: Why wouldn't I ?
2: I have never seen one thing on these forums that has actually ended up in what one would consider a conclusive result. Show me something through all your copying and pasting that you have actually worked through and determined is fact.
I could point to lots of threads with conclusive arguments, but whether you accept and argument would be another matter.
It's impossible as the underlying bricks and mortar of all these conversations (the building blocks if you will) are all based on Spirituality which at it's essence either exists in your mind or it is just a vacant lot .
And I disagree that that is the 'underlying bricks and mortar of all these conversations'. Many of the conversations are regarding scientific issues, logical issues, theology etc.
Even the topic of this thread could be addresses from a totally nonspiritual point of view.
Do all religions have a 'hell' concept or an equivalent?
If so, why?
Are those spiritual questions? Are the answers spiritual? I don't think so.
What do you mean by 'spiritual' anyway? Do you mean 'made up'? Can spiritual things be factual, or is it lala land?
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonMaybe for his glory?
How does that answer my question? or is that not supposed to be an "answer"?
My question was:
Why would a 'god' take the chance that you will not repent if that 'god' doesn't want you to fail to repent and is all-powerful so can avoid the risk of you not repenting?
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by sonhouseI think that hell is torment and suffering, is it not? Conversly, heaven is used to describe happiness and bliss. We experience both to various degrees here on earth, so if there is a next life, why should either be exempt?
Why such a perverted concept? Why would a god wish something like that on humanity?
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by sonhouseWell, as Jesus points out Hell was not made for man, but man will end up there.
Why such a perverted concept? Why would a god wish something like that on humanity?
Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, when we joined that rebellion we
joined their fate.
Kelly
Matthew 25 (King James Version)
" 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: "
29 Jan 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf i only had so much time on my hands to go back and forth with you my kind Sir... I try to be true to myself as much as possible with respect to my beliefs. What i end up believing in is as much a product of that reasoning. 2 A conclusive argument is just that (imho) it is an argument that has concluded and has neither proved a point or not . It is ,however a forum for those to go on and on and on... I agree that we must disagree on this point. Pretty much every argument on these forums is based on faith of some kind a beleif in something or not . All based on something not tangible. As far as Spirituality, it is in my opinion something that cannot be seen ,touched,heard etc.
It just seems like an odd thing to do. Do you pick what you believe in at random, or do you go by tradition, or what you think will benefit you?
[b]2: I have never seen one thing on these forums that has actually ended up in what one would consider a conclusive result. Show me something through all your copying and pasting that you have actually worked ...[text shortened]... ' anyway? Do you mean 'made up'? Can spiritual things be factual, or is it lala land?