04 Dec 13
Originally posted by sonship
God loves me. So He rejects the damaged sin corrupted me. He receives me IN Christ. He only wants Christ in me.
Fortunately God has a way to place me in Christ and to saturate Christ into me. This is His process of salvation. That is to put me in Christ and to wrought Christ into me.
God rejects me. But that is alright because in seeing myself in th ...[text shortened]... the beloved and accepted [b]"in Him."
I will elaborate this concept in posts to come.[/b]
God loves me. So He rejects the damaged sin corrupted me. He receives me IN Christ. He only wants Christ in me.
So He only loves "you" to the extent that He Himself is instantiated in you? Is this a demonstration of bizarro-love? When you love someone, you love them for who they are, not for who they are not. Doesn't sound like this God loves you; rather, it sounds like He just loves Himself. This wouldn't show that God loves you. It would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.
04 Dec 13
Originally posted by LemonJelloIt would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.God loves me. So He rejects the damaged sin corrupted me. He receives me IN Christ. He only wants Christ in me.
So He only loves "you" to the extent that He Himself is instantiated in you? Is this a demonstration of bizarro-love? When you love someone, you love them for who they are, not for who they are not. Doesn't sound like this G ...[text shortened]... self. This wouldn't show that God loves you. It would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.
To the uninformed mind, this sounds like a bad thing.
For those willing to dig a little deeper, it is discovered that in one, very rare instance, self-love is not only totally deserved, but also wholly warranted.
One person out of all is deserving of pure, unadulterated, unfiltered love.
God is that one person.
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04 Dec 13
When people say that god has the right to do something, or is deserving of something...
I always feel moved to ask "Why?".
What is it that makes god worthy of being worshipped, or loved, or obeyed?
Because the being described in the bible is an evil tyrant. And deserving of nothing.
04 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou know nothing of the Bible, nothing of God.
When people say that god has the right to do something, or is deserving of something...
I always feel moved to ask "Why?".
What is it that makes god worthy of being worshipped, or loved, or obeyed?
Because the being described in the bible is an evil tyrant. And deserving of nothing.
Why act as though you do when you do not?
How are so many other intelligent, thoughtful people able to read the exact same books and come to such a wildly disparate conclusion?
How is it that 100% of people who use the Bible as proof of their accusation of God as an evil tyrant have literally zero understanding of the Bible other than their 'pet passages' which they willfully twist out of context to make their points?
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05 Dec 13
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI don't care what it says in the bible.
You know nothing of the Bible, nothing of God.
Why act as though you do when you do not?
How are so many other intelligent, thoughtful people able to read the exact same books and come to such a wildly disparate conclusion?
How is it that 100% of people who use the Bible as proof of their accusation of God as an evil tyrant have literally zero understan ...[text shortened]... other than their 'pet passages' which they willfully twist out of context to make their points?
It can be interpreted so many different ways that it's worse than useless... Even if it were right.
I only really care what people THINK it says in the bible
Which is why I ask what people think it says.
I ask people what they believe.
Which is why I don't talk about eternal hell to Suzianne because I know she doesn't believe that.
Whether her interpretation of the bible is 'right'... well given I think the entire thing is wrong and
incoherent who am I to say.
However there are many atheists who have read the entire thing cover to cover.
Some that have large parts pretty much memorized.
A large part of the reason being that many atheists started out as Christians.
Some of them were, or were training as, preachers. And when they were theists they believed hard.
And now they don't... Often times BECAUSE they actually read the bible.
Many atheists consider the bible an excellent recruiting tool for converting Christians to atheism...
Or at least setting them on the path to atheism. Of making them question their faith.
Go watch some episodes of "The Atheist Experience" with Matt Dillahunty Who was training to be a
priest and I rather suspect knows the bible a damn site better than you do.
http://www.atheist-experience.com/
So let me ask you...
Do you believe that your god of the bible requires people to believe He exists and to worship Him to
be able to get into heaven? (and not be sent to hell, or be executed, or whatever the negative
consequences are that you believe in)
05 Dec 13
Originally posted by FreakyKBHGreat. So we've established that God, your supposed moral exemplar, is hella-narcissistic. I guess we can add that to His list of bizarro praiseworthy qualities.
[b]It would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.
To the uninformed mind, this sounds like a bad thing.
For those willing to dig a little deeper, it is discovered that in one, very rare instance, self-love is not only totally deserved, but also wholly warranted.
One person out of all is deserving of pure, unadulterated, unfiltered love.
God is that one person.[/b]
05 Dec 13
Originally posted by FreakyKBHNew version of a classic (though faulty) argument:
[b]It would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.
To the uninformed mind, this sounds like a bad thing.
For those willing to dig a little deeper, it is discovered that in one, very rare instance, self-love is not only totally deserved, but also wholly warranted.
One person out of all is deserving of pure, unadulterated, unfiltered love.
God is that one person.[/b]
"If God is Omnipotent, can he make his own spine so rigid he can't blow himself?"
05 Dec 13
Originally posted by SwissGambitHad to think of this clip from Family Guy featuring a T. rex unable to reach far enough.
New version of a classic (though faulty) argument:
"If God is Omnipotent, can he make his own spine so rigid he can't blow himself?"
Maybe that's why God got so frustrated 🙂
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05 Dec 13
Originally posted by LemonJelloGod loves me. So He rejects the damaged sin corrupted me. He receives me IN Christ. He only wants Christ in me.
So He only loves "you" to the extent that He Himself is instantiated in you? Is this a demonstration of bizarro-love? When you love someone, you love them for who they are, not for who they are not. Doesn't sound like this G ...[text shortened]... self. This wouldn't show that God loves you. It would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.
So He only loves "you" to the extent that He Himself is instantiated in you?
That's not a bad way to put it. Yes. He loves you too the same way.
Is this a demonstration of bizarro-love?
I don't think so at all. I think it is indicative of the final invisible reality behind all creation with a desire to be seen.
This mingling of God and man is fully witnessed in Jesus Christ.
When you love someone, you love them for who they are,
We lost "who we are" when we became infested with the nature of Satan.
What you fail to see is that God's enemy always like to run ahead of God and imitate in some evil way the eternal purpose of God.
So lost to a tremendous degree who we were and expressed Satan.
not for who they are not.
You will never find a better Friend than Jesus.
Doesn't sound like this God loves you; rather, it sounds like He just loves Himself. This wouldn't show that God loves you. It would only show that He is hella-narcissistic.
You will never find a better Lover of your being than Jesus.
05 Dec 13
Originally posted by sonshipSo when did I loose who I was? At what age? Or are we talking about 'man' in general, ie prior to my birth? And what should I care about whether or not God loves/loved who I was? I only really care about who I am now. If I am part Satan, then so be it, that is who I am.
So lost to a tremendous degree who we were and expressed Satan.
Similarly, I think morality and empathy are about recognising others for who they are, not for who they were. We don't say that murder or genocide are OK, because the people dying are 90% Satan.
05 Dec 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeAlthough I have been a serious student of the Bible for about 42 years--- including nearly ten years in which I rigorously, nearly desperately strove to prove the Bible was not the inspired Word of God--- I am certain there are more than a few people who know it better in some manner or another.
I don't care what it says in the bible.
It can be interpreted so many different ways that it's worse than useless... Even if it were right.
I only really care what people THINK it says in the bible
Which is why I ask what people think it says.
I ask people what they believe.
Which is why I don't talk about eternal hell to Suzianne because I kn ...[text shortened]... nt to hell, or be executed, or whatever the negative
consequences are that you believe in)[/i]
I am also certain there are folks far smarter than me who have completely eschewed any consideration of the Bible's authority, for what that is worth. As some type of balance, of the folks who know it better, there are more who place their confidence in the Bible than those who reject it. In another measure of balance, the overwhelming majority of history's brilliant minds have also placed their confidence in the Bible's authority... if either of those tidbits can add any sense of relief.
For me, both those better versed as well as those just plain smarter have an equal amount of influence on my decision to continue trusting Scripture: next to nothing. Not that I don't consider another's informed opinion; I try to find the truth in even uniformed decisions, since you never know where truth will pop up. However, my confidence is a result of the years of constant testing yet never finding fault. Each and every time, without fail the Bible has proven itself against each and every challenge. It seriously hasn't even once been close, although at first I really thought I had found its Achilles heel many times.
Do you believe that your god of the bible requires people to believe He exists and to worship Him to
be able to get into heaven? (and not be sent to hell, or be executed, or whatever the negative
consequences are that you believe in)[/b]
Believe He exists: yes, but I don't think it is meant in the same way you mean it.
Worship Him to be able to get into heaven: no.